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6 TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY
7 U. S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
8 TENNESSEE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENT & CONSERVATION
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10 QUARTERLY PUBLIC MEETING
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14 JANUARY 26, 2010
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18 ROANE COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL
19 KINGSTON, TENNESSEE
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NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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4 APPEARANCES
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6 SPEAKERS PAGE
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8 STEVE MCCRACKEN, TVA................ 4
9 BRENDA TIMM, CAG ................... 7
10 RANDY ELLIS, CAG.................... 9
11 LEO FRANCENDESE, EPA................ 13
12 CRAIG ZELLER, EPA................... 43
13 ALAN YARBROUGH, ATSDR............... 59
14 BONNIE BASHOR, TDOH................. 60
15 BRUCE ENGELBERT, FACILITATOR........ 67
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NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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3 PUBLIC SPEAKERS PAGE
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5 JACK ARP.............................. 70
6 TERRI LIKENS.......................... 71
7 FRANZ RAETZER......................... 72
8 ELAINE STEELE......................... 77
9 EARL TYLER............................ 87
10 DAVE BRUNDAGE......................... 93
11 FLO HOPKINS........................... 100
12 VINCE JOSWICK......................... 108
13 ROGER BAILEY.......................... 113
14 DAVE BRUNDAGE......................... 116
15 JOHN SINGLETON........................ 118
16 ROGER BAILEY.......................... 122
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NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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17:56:24 1 STEVE MCCRACKEN: Good evening,
7:56:24 1 STEVE MCCRACKEN: Good evening,
17:56:24 2 everybody. For those of you that I haven't
7:56:24 2 everybody. For those of you that I haven't
17:56:44 3 met before, my name is Steve McCracken. I'm
7:56:44 3 met before, my name is Steve McCracken. I'm
17:56:48 4 the general manager of the ash cleanup
7:56:48 4 the general manager of the ash cleanup
17:56:54 5 project for TVA. Before we begin, I guess I
7:56:54 5 project for TVA. Before we begin, I guess I
17:57:00 6 just need to state the obvious. If we need
7:57:00 6 just need to state the obvious. If we need
17:57:04 7 to exit the building for any reason, there's
7:57:04 7 to exit the building for any reason, there's
17:57:06 8 two exits at the back and two at the front.
7:57:06 8 two exits at the back and two at the front.
17:57:10 9 And I think -- I don't know where the
7:57:10 9 And I think -- I don't know where the
17:57:10 10 restrooms are. They're around here
7:57:10 10 restrooms are. They're around here
17:57:12 11 somewhere. They're that way. So I guess
7:57:12 11 somewhere. They're that way. So I guess
17:57:16 12 that covers that.
7:57:16 12 that covers that.
17:57:26 13 Where is Mike? Mike Farmer is here
7:57:26 13 Where is Mike? Mike Farmer is here
17:57:26 14 this evening. Mike, raise your hand.
7:57:26 14 this evening. Mike, raise your hand.
17:57:30 15 Everybody welcome Mr. Farmer here this
7:57:30 15 Everybody welcome Mr. Farmer here this
17:57:32 16 evening. Executive Farmer. I want to thank
7:57:32 16 evening. Executive Farmer. I want to thank
17:57:34 17 you for coming. We have a full agenda. We
7:57:34 17 you for coming. We have a full agenda. We
17:57:38 18 have a lot of things to talk about. I'd
7:57:38 18 have a lot of things to talk about. I'd
17:57:40 19 like to -- all I'm going to do is make
7:57:40 19 like to -- all I'm going to do is make
17:57:42 20 introductions and once I have introduced the
7:57:42 20 introductions and once I have introduced the
17:57:46 21 people that are going to speak tonight and
7:57:46 21 people that are going to speak tonight and
17:57:48 22 talk a little bit about the agenda, then you
7:57:48 22 talk a little bit about the agenda, then you
17:57:52 23 -- I won't get up and keep introducing
7:57:52 23 -- I won't get up and keep introducing
17:57:54 24 people as the night goes on because that
7:57:54 24 people as the night goes on because that
17:57:56 25 will just take more of your time.
7:57:56 25 will just take more of your time.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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17:58:00 1 If you attended the last public
7:58:00 1 If you attended the last public
17:58:02 2 meeting, you will recognize our facilitator
7:58:02 2 meeting, you will recognize our facilitator
17:58:06 3 that's here today. Bruce, if you'd stand
7:58:06 3 that's here today. Bruce, if you'd stand
17:58:08 4 up. Bruce Engelbert is a single -- a senior
7:58:08 4 up. Bruce Engelbert is a single -- a senior
17:58:12 5 facilitator from E-Squared, Inc., out of
7:58:12 5 facilitator from E-Squared, Inc., out of
17:58:16 6 Charlottesville, Virginia. He facilitated
7:58:16 6 Charlottesville, Virginia. He facilitated
17:58:18 7 the last meeting we had. We thought he did
7:58:18 7 the last meeting we had. We thought he did
17:58:20 8 a great job. He will facilitate the
7:58:20 8 a great job. He will facilitate the
17:58:24 9 question and answer part of the program
7:58:24 9 question and answer part of the program
17:58:24 10 tonight. He will talk to you -- he will
7:58:24 10 tonight. He will talk to you -- he will
17:58:30 11 introduce the question and answer period and
7:58:30 11 introduce the question and answer period and
17:58:32 12 then he will take questions from the
7:58:32 12 then he will take questions from the
17:58:34 13 audience and direct them to the right people
7:58:34 13 audience and direct them to the right people
17:58:36 14 and he'll talk a little bit about the ground
7:58:36 14 and he'll talk a little bit about the ground
17:58:38 15 rules for that when it's his turn.
7:58:38 15 rules for that when it's his turn.
17:58:40 16 Presentations tonight will be made
7:58:40 16 Presentations tonight will be made
17:58:42 17 by Leo Francendese. Leo, raise your hand.
7:58:42 17 by Leo Francendese. Leo, raise your hand.
17:58:48 18 Leo is EPA's on-site coordinator. He will
7:58:48 18 Leo is EPA's on-site coordinator. He will
17:58:52 19 provide you an update on the Kingston site
7:58:52 19 provide you an update on the Kingston site
17:58:56 20 and discuss the EPA's environmental audit
7:58:56 20 and discuss the EPA's environmental audit
17:58:58 21 report.
7:58:58 21 report.
17:59:00 22 Craig Zeller. Where is Craig?
7:59:00 22 Craig Zeller. Where is Craig?
17:59:04 23 He is the EE/CA project manager, the
7:59:04 23 He is the EE/CA project manager, the
17:59:08 24 Engineering Evaluation and Cost Analysis,
7:59:08 24 Engineering Evaluation and Cost Analysis,
17:59:10 25 which is that document that will, we hope,
7:59:10 25 which is that document that will, we hope,
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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17:59:12 1 lead us to a final cleanup decision for the
7:59:12 1 lead us to a final cleanup decision for the
17:59:16 2 site over the next few months. He works for
7:59:16 2 site over the next few months. He works for
17:59:20 3 EPA. He will go through the alternatives
7:59:20 3 EPA. He will go through the alternatives
17:59:22 4 that are in that report and talk about the
7:59:22 4 that are in that report and talk about the
17:59:24 5 next phase of the cleanup.
7:59:24 5 next phase of the cleanup.
17:59:28 6 Bonnie Bashor. Bonnie, if you'd
7:59:28 6 Bonnie Bashor. Bonnie, if you'd
17:59:28 7 raise your hand. Bonnie Bashor is with the
7:59:28 7 raise your hand. Bonnie Bashor is with the
17:59:32 8 Tennessee Department of Health. She will
7:59:32 8 Tennessee Department of Health. She will
17:59:34 9 present the Tennessee Department of Health
7:59:34 9 present the Tennessee Department of Health
17:59:36 10 and ATSDR's draft health assessment that is
7:59:36 10 and ATSDR's draft health assessment that is
17:59:40 11 currently out for public comment.
7:59:40 11 currently out for public comment.
17:59:44 12 By the way, when you came in
7:59:44 12 By the way, when you came in
17:59:46 13 tonight you noticed that there's a lot of
7:59:46 13 tonight you noticed that there's a lot of
17:59:48 14 posters along the walls. What we would
7:59:48 14 posters along the walls. What we would
17:59:50 15 really hope that you would take the time to
7:59:50 15 really hope that you would take the time to
17:59:54 16 do is stop and talk to the people that we
7:59:54 16 do is stop and talk to the people that we
17:59:56 17 have that are subject matter experts in a
7:59:56 17 have that are subject matter experts in a
18:00:02 18 lot of things, the alternatives, air
8:00:02 18 lot of things, the alternatives, air
18:00:04 19 monitoring, water monitoring. They can
8:00:04 19 monitoring, water monitoring. They can
18:00:06 20 certainly and are more than willing and, in
8:00:06 20 certainly and are more than willing and, in
18:00:08 21 fact, would look forward to an opportunity
8:00:08 21 fact, would look forward to an opportunity
18:00:10 22 to talk to you one on one about the work
8:00:10 22 to talk to you one on one about the work
18:00:14 23 that's in their particular area of
8:00:14 23 that's in their particular area of
18:00:18 24 expertise. We will hang around after the
8:00:18 24 expertise. We will hang around after the
18:00:20 25 meeting is over tonight. So that if you
8:00:20 25 meeting is over tonight. So that if you
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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18:00:22 1 think of any questions that you might have
8:00:22 1 think of any questions that you might have
18:00:24 2 for those people, feel free to talk to them
8:00:24 2 for those people, feel free to talk to them
18:00:28 3 before you leave.
8:00:28 3 before you leave.
18:00:30 4 Before we begin, I would like to
8:00:30 4 Before we begin, I would like to
18:00:34 5 say again that I'm not going to stand up and
8:00:34 5 say again that I'm not going to stand up and
18:00:38 6 reintroduce each one of the presenters.
8:00:38 6 reintroduce each one of the presenters.
18:00:40 7 I'll let them each introduce themselves in
8:00:40 7 I'll let them each introduce themselves in
18:00:42 8 the order that they come up here to talk and
8:00:42 8 the order that they come up here to talk and
18:00:46 9 present the information that they have.
8:00:46 9 present the information that they have.
18:00:48 10 Before we begin that, though, I'd like to
8:00:48 10 Before we begin that, though, I'd like to
18:00:50 11 introduce Brenda Timm. Brenda, raise your
8:00:50 11 introduce Brenda Timm. Brenda, raise your
18:00:54 12 hand. Brenda Timm is the chair of Roane
8:00:54 12 hand. Brenda Timm is the chair of Roane
18:00:56 13 County Community Advisory Group. Standing
8:00:56 13 County Community Advisory Group. Standing
18:01:00 14 next to her is Randy Ellis. He's also on
8:01:00 14 next to her is Randy Ellis. He's also on
18:01:02 15 the Community Action Group. But Brenda
8:01:02 15 the Community Action Group. But Brenda
18:01:04 16 would like to speak to you for a few minutes
8:01:04 16 would like to speak to you for a few minutes
18:01:06 17 and then we'll begin the presentations
8:01:06 17 and then we'll begin the presentations
18:01:08 18 beginning with Leo. Thank you very much.
8:01:08 18 beginning with Leo. Thank you very much.
18:01:12 19 BRENDA TIMM: As he said, I'm
8:01:12 19 BRENDA TIMM: As he said, I'm
18:01:18 20 Brenda Timm and we're with the Community
8:01:18 20 Brenda Timm and we're with the Community
18:01:22 21 Advisory Group. The CAG was formed to deal
8:01:22 21 Advisory Group. The CAG was formed to deal
18:01:24 22 with the non-time-critical cleanup of the
8:01:24 22 with the non-time-critical cleanup of the
18:01:26 23 ash disaster and is made up of members of
8:01:26 23 ash disaster and is made up of members of
18:01:28 24 the community of all areas around the
8:01:28 24 the community of all areas around the
18:01:32 25 disaster.
8:01:32 25 disaster.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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18:01:32 1 The CAG was given a grant to hire
8:01:32 1 The CAG was given a grant to hire
18:01:34 2 an independent technical advisor, which
8:01:34 2 an independent technical advisor, which
18:01:36 3 we're in the process of doing that now.
8:01:36 3 we're in the process of doing that now.
18:01:38 4 We're hoping to finalize that by the end of
8:01:38 4 We're hoping to finalize that by the end of
18:01:40 5 the month. And once we hire our technical
8:01:40 5 the month. And once we hire our technical
18:01:44 6 advisor, they'll be available to us to
8:01:44 6 advisor, they'll be available to us to
18:01:46 7 answer the more technical questions on the
8:01:46 7 answer the more technical questions on the
18:01:48 8 documents that are out for comment now. Of
8:01:48 8 documents that are out for comment now. Of
18:01:52 9 those documents that are out right now, in
8:01:52 9 those documents that are out right now, in
18:01:56 10 case you aren't aware, they're on our
8:01:56 10 case you aren't aware, they're on our
18:01:58 11 website which is www.roanecag.org. They're
8:01:58 11 website which is www.roanecag.org. They're
18:02:04 12 also on TVA and EPA's websites and those are
8:02:04 12 also on TVA and EPA's websites and those are
18:02:08 13 the EE/CA and the Tennessee Department of
8:02:08 13 the EE/CA and the Tennessee Department of
18:02:10 14 Health's risk assessment.
8:02:10 14 Health's risk assessment.
18:02:12 15 If you want to sign up for
8:02:12 15 If you want to sign up for
18:02:14 16 notifications, when these things come out
8:02:14 16 notifications, when these things come out
18:02:16 17 we put them on our website, you can -- we'll
8:02:16 17 we put them on our website, you can -- we'll
18:02:20 18 be over here at our table if you want to
8:02:20 18 be over here at our table if you want to
18:02:20 19 stop by, give us your name, e-mail or phone
8:02:20 19 stop by, give us your name, e-mail or phone
18:02:24 20 number, whichever is more convenient for
8:02:24 20 number, whichever is more convenient for
18:02:26 21 you. We'd be happy to let you know when
8:02:26 21 you. We'd be happy to let you know when
18:02:28 22 those things come out. Just another way to
8:02:28 22 those things come out. Just another way to
18:02:30 23 inform you.
8:02:30 23 inform you.
18:02:32 24 At this time I want to introduce
8:02:32 24 At this time I want to introduce
18:02:32 25 Randy Ellis. He's the vice chair of the
8:02:32 25 Randy Ellis. He's the vice chair of the
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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18:02:36 1 Community Advisory Group and he's going to
8:02:36 1 Community Advisory Group and he's going to
18:02:38 2 give you an update of some of the things
8:02:38 2 give you an update of some of the things
18:02:40 3 that we've been working on and some of our
8:02:40 3 that we've been working on and some of our
18:02:44 4 accomplishments to date. Randy.
8:02:44 4 accomplishments to date. Randy.
18:02:46 5 RANDY ELLIS: Randy Ellis. I just
8:02:46 5 RANDY ELLIS: Randy Ellis. I just
18:02:52 6 want to go ahead and apologize ahead of
8:02:52 6 want to go ahead and apologize ahead of
18:02:54 7 time. I'm not the greatest public speaker.
8:02:54 7 time. I'm not the greatest public speaker.
18:02:56 8 I'm going to go over a few of the
8:02:56 8 I'm going to go over a few of the
18:02:58 9 accomplishments that the CAG has been able
8:02:58 9 accomplishments that the CAG has been able
18:03:00 10 to accomplish and cover some stuff we've
8:03:00 10 to accomplish and cover some stuff we've
18:03:02 11 been working on on behalf of Roane County.
8:03:02 11 been working on on behalf of Roane County.
18:03:04 12 One person that we didn't recognize
8:03:04 12 One person that we didn't recognize
18:03:06 13 tonight is Beth Hickman. She's here for
8:03:06 13 tonight is Beth Hickman. She's here for
18:03:10 14 Congressman Lincoln Davis right back here.
8:03:10 14 Congressman Lincoln Davis right back here.
18:03:12 15 Like I said, I just want to take a few
8:03:12 15 Like I said, I just want to take a few
18:03:12 16 minutes to go over some of the things that
8:03:12 16 minutes to go over some of the things that
18:03:14 17 we've been looking out for Roane County and
8:03:14 17 we've been looking out for Roane County and
18:03:16 18 some of the accomplishments.
8:03:16 18 some of the accomplishments.
18:03:18 19 The CAG has been frustrated with
8:03:18 19 The CAG has been frustrated with
18:03:22 20 lack of accurate information received from
8:03:22 20 lack of accurate information received from
18:03:22 21 all agencies in the beginning. We expressed
8:03:22 21 all agencies in the beginning. We expressed
18:03:24 22 our concern with the lack of effective
8:03:24 22 our concern with the lack of effective
18:03:26 23 communication from TVA on a number of
8:03:26 23 communication from TVA on a number of
18:03:26 24 subjects such as traffic concerns, the ash
8:03:26 24 subjects such as traffic concerns, the ash
18:03:30 25 snow that occurred on September 18th, and
8:03:30 25 snow that occurred on September 18th, and
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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18:03:30 1 other operations that affect the public in
8:03:30 1 other operations that affect the public in
18:03:34 2 the Swan Pond area.
8:03:34 2 the Swan Pond area.
18:03:36 3 As a result of this, TVA has made a
8:03:36 3 As a result of this, TVA has made a
18:03:38 4 renewed and renowned effort to get
8:03:38 4 renewed and renowned effort to get
18:03:40 5 information to the public even through --
8:03:40 5 information to the public even through --
18:03:42 6 even though this is a work in progress and
8:03:42 6 even though this is a work in progress and
18:03:44 7 far from perfect. Progress has certainly
8:03:44 7 far from perfect. Progress has certainly
18:03:46 8 been made. We expressed concern regarding
8:03:46 8 been made. We expressed concern regarding
18:03:48 9 violation of the Alabama ash storage site to
8:03:48 9 violation of the Alabama ash storage site to
18:03:50 10 EPA. EPA was unaware of the situation until
8:03:50 10 EPA. EPA was unaware of the situation until
18:03:54 11 it was brought to their attention and that
8:03:54 11 it was brought to their attention and that
18:03:56 12 they are now investigating this.
8:03:56 12 they are now investigating this.
18:03:56 13 The CAG has pointed out several
8:03:56 13 The CAG has pointed out several
18:03:58 14 concerns in the sampling data and
8:03:58 14 concerns in the sampling data and
18:04:02 15 methodology where samples have not been
8:04:02 15 methodology where samples have not been
18:04:04 16 taken at high flows on the Emory River when
8:04:04 16 taken at high flows on the Emory River when
18:04:06 17 the greatest contaminant load would be
8:04:06 17 the greatest contaminant load would be
18:04:08 18 present.
8:04:08 18 present.
18:04:10 19 Water quality data is incomplete
8:04:10 19 Water quality data is incomplete
18:04:10 20 and does not give an accurate picture of
8:04:10 20 and does not give an accurate picture of
18:04:12 21 heavy metal contaminant discharge and we
8:04:12 21 heavy metal contaminant discharge and we
18:04:16 22 think this understates them. There are
8:04:16 22 think this understates them. There are
18:04:18 23 serious anomalies that are unexplained
8:04:18 23 serious anomalies that are unexplained
18:04:20 24 between residual ash remaining in the failed
8:04:20 24 between residual ash remaining in the failed
18:04:24 25 pile and the dredge material analysis as
8:04:24 25 pile and the dredge material analysis as
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
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18:04:26 1 well as the contaminant data for fish
8:04:26 1 well as the contaminant data for fish
18:04:26 2 collected in the spill area compared to fish
8:04:26 2 collected in the spill area compared to fish
18:04:30 3 collected upstream from the spill area.
8:04:30 3 collected upstream from the spill area.
18:04:32 4 The CAG is also concerned about
8:04:32 4 The CAG is also concerned about
18:04:34 5 the TVA as lead agency and would prefer
8:04:34 5 the TVA as lead agency and would prefer
18:04:36 6 that TVA be removed as lead agency due
8:04:36 6 that TVA be removed as lead agency due
18:04:36 7 to the failures such as water sampling
8:04:36 7 to the failures such as water sampling
18:04:42 8 irregularities and questions on air quality
8:04:42 8 irregularities and questions on air quality
18:04:42 9 measurements, as well. For instance, videos
8:04:42 9 measurements, as well. For instance, videos
18:04:46 10 clearly show ash dust being stirred up into
8:04:46 10 clearly show ash dust being stirred up into
18:04:50 11 clouds, but sampling stations does not
8:04:50 11 clouds, but sampling stations does not
18:04:52 12 indicate any data from this event.
8:04:52 12 indicate any data from this event.
18:04:56 13 We are seriously concerned and have
8:04:56 13 We are seriously concerned and have
18:04:58 14 called into question the practices allowing
8:04:58 14 called into question the practices allowing
18:05:00 15 TVA to redo TDEC, EPA and Department of
8:05:00 15 TVA to redo TDEC, EPA and Department of
18:05:04 16 Health documents prior to the release to the
8:05:04 16 Health documents prior to the release to the
18:05:04 17 public for comment. The CAG asked for and
8:05:04 17 public for comment. The CAG asked for and
18:05:06 18 receive the public health assessment and the
8:05:06 18 receive the public health assessment and the
18:05:08 19 TVA comments that were transmitted in
8:05:08 19 TVA comments that were transmitted in
18:05:10 20 official written form. These are posted at
8:05:10 20 official written form. These are posted at
18:05:14 21 the Tennessee Department of Health website
8:05:14 21 the Tennessee Department of Health website
18:05:16 22 and are linked on the CAG website also for
8:05:16 22 and are linked on the CAG website also for
18:05:18 23 everyone to see if they wish.
8:05:18 23 everyone to see if they wish.
18:05:20 24 The CAG has pointed out the failure
8:05:20 24 The CAG has pointed out the failure
18:05:22 25 of EPA standards for selenium in fish and
8:05:22 25 of EPA standards for selenium in fish and
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:05:26 1 corresponding to the warnings issued by the
8:05:26 1 corresponding to the warnings issued by the
18:05:30 2 Federal Drug Administration. Selenium
8:05:30 2 Federal Drug Administration. Selenium
18:05:32 3 contamination is collected -- has collected
8:05:32 3 contamination is collected -- has collected
18:05:34 4 fish as high enough to be considered toxic
8:05:34 4 fish as high enough to be considered toxic
18:05:36 5 by FDA standards. The CAG also has asked
8:05:36 5 by FDA standards. The CAG also has asked
18:05:40 6 for and received assurances that visual
8:05:40 6 for and received assurances that visual
18:05:42 7 aesthetics would be attended to in any
8:05:42 7 aesthetics would be attended to in any
18:05:44 8 restored dikes in the Swan Pond area or
8:05:44 8 restored dikes in the Swan Pond area or
18:05:48 9 other remediation of that area.
8:05:48 9 other remediation of that area.
18:05:50 10 Finally, the CAG continues to
8:05:50 10 Finally, the CAG continues to
18:05:52 11 listen to your concerns and the Roane County
8:05:52 11 listen to your concerns and the Roane County
18:05:54 12 citizens and relay them to EPA, TDEC and TVA
8:05:54 12 citizens and relay them to EPA, TDEC and TVA
18:05:58 13 and all other agencies involved. These
8:05:58 13 and all other agencies involved. These
18:05:58 14 agencies meet with us on a regular basis and
8:05:58 14 agencies meet with us on a regular basis and
18:06:00 15 respond to our questions. And e-mails have
8:06:00 15 respond to our questions. And e-mails have
18:06:02 16 -- even though we don't always like some of
8:06:02 16 -- even though we don't always like some of
18:06:04 17 their answers, but they are responding to
8:06:04 17 their answers, but they are responding to
18:06:06 18 our questions.
8:06:06 18 our questions.
18:06:08 19 Please feel free to contact me or
8:06:08 19 Please feel free to contact me or
18:06:10 20 anyone on our CAG website. It's www.cag.org
8:06:10 20 anyone on our CAG website. It's www.cag.org
18:06:16 21 or www.cag.com. You can pretty much get it
8:06:16 21 or www.cag.com. You can pretty much get it
18:06:18 22 in any area there. We want to know what
8:06:18 22 in any area there. We want to know what
18:06:20 23 your concerns is and we will do our best to
8:06:20 23 your concerns is and we will do our best to
18:06:22 24 raise questions that need to be addressed.
8:06:22 24 raise questions that need to be addressed.
18:06:24 25 Brenda had mentioned before, we was formed
8:06:24 25 Brenda had mentioned before, we was formed
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
13
18:06:28 1 for the community. We're your outlet.
8:06:28 1 for the community. We're your outlet.
18:06:32 2 We're sort of like your board of
8:06:32 2 We're sort of like your board of
18:06:32 3 commissioners, board to go to to vent your
8:06:32 3 commissioners, board to go to to vent your
18:06:34 4 concerns to the TVA.
8:06:34 4 concerns to the TVA.
18:06:36 5 Like I said, we ask the questions.
8:06:36 5 Like I said, we ask the questions.
18:06:38 6 And you can ask, we're pretty persistent
8:06:38 6 And you can ask, we're pretty persistent
18:06:40 7 when we ask questions and we want answers
8:06:40 7 when we ask questions and we want answers
18:06:42 8 for our community. Because we're
8:06:42 8 for our community. Because we're
18:06:42 9 representing the community and the community
8:06:42 9 representing the community and the community
18:06:44 10 is just not somebody that we're going to be
8:06:44 10 is just not somebody that we're going to be
18:06:46 11 gone when the spill is over, because we're
8:06:46 11 gone when the spill is over, because we're
18:06:48 12 part of this community just like you're part
8:06:48 12 part of this community just like you're part
18:06:50 13 of this community. So we have a vested
8:06:50 13 of this community. So we have a vested
18:06:52 14 interest in seeing our community cleaned up,
8:06:52 14 interest in seeing our community cleaned up,
18:06:52 15 too. So please, please, please do not ever
8:06:52 15 too. So please, please, please do not ever
18:06:54 16 hesitate to contact anybody with the CAG,
8:06:54 16 hesitate to contact anybody with the CAG,
18:06:56 17 myself, Brenda, or anyone on the CAG and
8:06:56 17 myself, Brenda, or anyone on the CAG and
18:07:00 18 stop by and chat with us afterwards. Thank
8:07:00 18 stop by and chat with us afterwards. Thank
18:07:02 19 you.
8:07:02 19 you.
18:07:10 20 LEO FRANCENDESE: Hi. I'm Leo
8:07:10 20 LEO FRANCENDESE: Hi. I'm Leo
18:07:22 21 Francendese. I'm the on-scene coordinator
8:07:22 21 Francendese. I'm the on-scene coordinator
18:07:24 22 for the EPA. I have a short presentation
8:07:24 22 for the EPA. I have a short presentation
18:07:28 23 here. Should probably get through it in
8:07:28 23 here. Should probably get through it in
18:07:30 24 about 30 minutes. It's meaty. I'm sure
8:07:30 24 about 30 minutes. It's meaty. I'm sure
18:07:34 25 there will be a fair amount of questions
8:07:34 25 there will be a fair amount of questions
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
14
18:07:36 1 that folks will want to talk about
8:07:36 1 that folks will want to talk about
18:07:38 2 afterwards. And I have a habit of walking
8:07:38 2 afterwards. And I have a habit of walking
18:07:42 3 around -- I have a habit of walking around,
8:07:42 3 around -- I have a habit of walking around,
18:07:46 4 so if you can tolerate that, I appreciate
8:07:46 4 so if you can tolerate that, I appreciate
18:07:50 5 it.
8:07:50 5 it.
18:07:54 6 All right. This is a -- I'm in
8:07:54 6 All right. This is a -- I'm in
18:07:56 7 charge for the EPA of the time-critical
8:07:56 7 charge for the EPA of the time-critical
18:08:00 8 phase. As Craig was introduced, he's in
8:08:00 8 phase. As Craig was introduced, he's in
18:08:02 9 charge for the non-time-critical phase.
8:08:02 9 charge for the non-time-critical phase.
18:08:04 10 This is -- from the EPA's perspective, this
8:08:04 10 This is -- from the EPA's perspective, this
18:08:08 11 is all done under an order with TVA using
8:08:08 11 is all done under an order with TVA using
18:08:12 12 CERCLA authority. We run a website that's a
8:08:12 12 CERCLA authority. We run a website that's a
18:08:20 13 fully dedicated page. We update it at least
8:08:20 13 fully dedicated page. We update it at least
18:08:24 14 every two days. It's chock full of
8:08:24 14 every two days. It's chock full of
18:08:28 15 information from every work plan we've
8:08:28 15 information from every work plan we've
18:08:30 16 approved to what are called pollution
8:08:30 16 approved to what are called pollution
18:08:34 17 reports and they are put out every two days.
8:08:34 17 reports and they are put out every two days.
18:08:40 18 The website is -- I think we're averaging
8:08:40 18 The website is -- I think we're averaging
18:08:46 19 several hundred hits a week. I've gotten a
8:08:46 19 several hundred hits a week. I've gotten a
18:08:50 20 lot of good feedback about information that
8:08:50 20 lot of good feedback about information that
18:08:52 21 they search for that they can't find and I
8:08:52 21 they search for that they can't find and I
18:08:54 22 encourage you to go to this website first
8:08:54 22 encourage you to go to this website first
18:08:58 23 instead of being frustrated by looking for
8:08:58 23 instead of being frustrated by looking for
18:09:00 24 numerous documents that you can't find.
8:09:00 24 numerous documents that you can't find.
18:09:04 25 Geographically, this is the
8:09:04 25 Geographically, this is the
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
15
18:09:10 1 separation between the non-time-critical
8:09:10 1 separation between the non-time-critical
18:09:12 2 phase and the time-critical phase.
8:09:12 2 phase and the time-critical phase.
18:09:14 3 Everything in red is the time-critical
8:09:14 3 Everything in red is the time-critical
18:09:18 4 phase. It's time-critical because in the
8:09:18 4 phase. It's time-critical because in the
18:09:22 5 Agency's opinion, it's a continuous release
8:09:22 5 Agency's opinion, it's a continuous release
18:09:26 6 when it's in an environment, such as the
8:09:26 6 when it's in an environment, such as the
18:09:30 7 river, where it doesn't belong. In terms of
8:09:30 7 river, where it doesn't belong. In terms of
18:09:32 8 non-time-critical, when you get to the point
8:09:32 8 non-time-critical, when you get to the point
18:09:36 9 where it's contained or under control, you
8:09:36 9 where it's contained or under control, you
18:09:40 10 then move to a different phraseology which
8:09:40 10 then move to a different phraseology which
18:09:44 11 is called non-time-critical.
8:09:44 11 is called non-time-critical.
18:09:46 12 Really the dividing line that's
8:09:46 12 Really the dividing line that's
18:09:48 13 most talked about to decide that is a dike.
8:09:48 13 most talked about to decide that is a dike.
18:09:54 14 It's called Dike 2. That was one of our
8:09:54 14 It's called Dike 2. That was one of our
18:09:56 15 earlier response actions in order to keep
8:09:56 15 earlier response actions in order to keep
18:10:02 16 what broke from the failed impoundment from
8:10:02 16 what broke from the failed impoundment from
18:10:04 17 continuing to go in the river. So what
8:10:04 17 continuing to go in the river. So what
18:10:06 18 they've done is they've used this as the
8:10:06 18 they've done is they've used this as the
18:10:10 19 boundary line or maginot line.
8:10:10 19 boundary line or maginot line.
18:10:16 20 This is the current progress. We
8:10:16 20 This is the current progress. We
18:10:20 21 expect by the first week in May to have the
8:10:20 21 expect by the first week in May to have the
18:10:22 22 overwhelming amount of ash removed from the
8:10:22 22 overwhelming amount of ash removed from the
18:10:26 23 river. We expect by November to have that
8:10:26 23 river. We expect by November to have that
18:10:30 24 ash that's been removed from the river
8:10:30 24 ash that's been removed from the river
18:10:36 25 disposed of off site. One of the decisions
8:10:36 25 disposed of off site. One of the decisions
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
16
18:10:38 1 we made early on was that the site was too
8:10:38 1 we made early on was that the site was too
18:10:42 2 unstable to keep that ash that we pulled out
8:10:42 2 unstable to keep that ash that we pulled out
18:10:46 3 of the river on site, so in order to move
8:10:46 3 of the river on site, so in order to move
18:10:48 4 with speed, we decided to incorporate off-
8:10:48 4 with speed, we decided to incorporate off-
18:10:52 5 site disposal and, as all of you know, we
8:10:52 5 site disposal and, as all of you know, we
18:10:54 6 went to a place called Arrowhead Landfill in
8:10:54 6 went to a place called Arrowhead Landfill in
18:10:58 7 Perry County, Alabama. We're on track with
8:10:58 7 Perry County, Alabama. We're on track with
18:11:02 8 both schedules.
8:11:02 8 both schedules.
18:11:06 9 This is a simple graphic. It's not
8:11:06 9 This is a simple graphic. It's not
18:11:10 10 meant for anything more than just a visual
8:11:10 10 meant for anything more than just a visual
18:11:12 11 understanding. I'll kind of help you with
8:11:12 11 understanding. I'll kind of help you with
18:11:18 12 the graphic here. Let's see if I can do
8:11:18 12 the graphic here. Let's see if I can do
18:11:22 13 this. Oh, there you go. This is two axes.
8:11:22 13 this. Oh, there you go. This is two axes.
18:11:30 14 The ash thickness goes from zero to 30 feet.
8:11:30 14 The ash thickness goes from zero to 30 feet.
18:11:34 15 If you look at the May, which is when the
8:11:34 15 If you look at the May, which is when the
18:11:38 16 order officially was signed, you'll see that
8:11:38 16 order officially was signed, you'll see that
18:11:42 17 there was a 30-foot plug and this is
8:11:42 17 there was a 30-foot plug and this is
18:11:46 18 distance -- it's hard to see here, but you
8:11:46 18 distance -- it's hard to see here, but you
18:11:50 19 can get this -- I'll post this power point
8:11:50 19 can get this -- I'll post this power point
18:11:52 20 on the web page in case folks want to see
8:11:52 20 on the web page in case folks want to see
18:11:54 21 it. You'll see here -- here we go. There
8:11:54 21 it. You'll see here -- here we go. There
18:12:00 22 it is. You'll see here that from here to
8:12:00 22 it is. You'll see here that from here to
18:12:04 23 here is about a mile and a half. So in a
8:12:04 23 here is about a mile and a half. So in a
18:12:08 24 mile and a half of the Emory River lies the
8:12:08 24 mile and a half of the Emory River lies the
18:12:10 25 big plug or bulk of where the ash is and
8:12:10 25 big plug or bulk of where the ash is and
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
17
18:12:14 1 that's a 30-foot plug that sat in the
8:12:14 1 that's a 30-foot plug that sat in the
18:12:16 2 channel when we first started doing work in
8:12:16 2 channel when we first started doing work in
18:12:20 3 May.
8:12:20 3 May.
18:12:20 4 TVA had started a pilot project
8:12:20 4 TVA had started a pilot project
18:12:24 5 back in March and then once we learned from
8:12:24 5 back in March and then once we learned from
18:12:28 6 the pilot project what we were capable of
8:12:28 6 the pilot project what we were capable of
18:12:30 7 doing, that removal became accelerated.
8:12:30 7 doing, that removal became accelerated.
18:12:34 8 You'll see in November a substantial amount
8:12:34 8 You'll see in November a substantial amount
18:12:36 9 of that plug was already removed and then
8:12:36 9 of that plug was already removed and then
18:12:40 10 you come to December you'll see that it's
8:12:40 10 you come to December you'll see that it's
18:12:42 11 down to 15 feet. We also pecked away at the
8:12:42 11 down to 15 feet. We also pecked away at the
18:12:48 12 edges here. The yellow is where the areas
8:12:48 12 edges here. The yellow is where the areas
18:12:52 13 were removed. So finally, here we are.
8:12:52 13 were removed. So finally, here we are.
18:12:52 14 This last one, the January 8th one, that's
8:12:52 14 This last one, the January 8th one, that's
18:12:56 15 based on the -- we do a bathymetry and we
8:12:56 15 based on the -- we do a bathymetry and we
18:13:02 16 produce some fancy pictures. This is a
8:13:02 16 produce some fancy pictures. This is a
18:13:04 17 reduction of those fancy pictures. We've
8:13:04 17 reduction of those fancy pictures. We've
18:13:06 18 gone past that since the first week of
8:13:06 18 gone past that since the first week of
18:13:08 19 January. It's about another 200,000 yards
8:13:08 19 January. It's about another 200,000 yards
18:13:12 20 less than what's here. So we're now into
8:13:12 20 less than what's here. So we're now into
18:13:14 21 the single digits of height of what that
8:13:14 21 the single digits of height of what that
18:13:18 22 plug is.
8:13:18 22 plug is.
18:13:22 23 Next issue. We're using what's
8:13:22 23 Next issue. We're using what's
18:13:26 24 called the old ball field as our primary
8:13:26 24 called the old ball field as our primary
18:13:28 25 processing area. Until now we've operated
8:13:28 25 processing area. Until now we've operated
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
18
18:13:32 1 at a maximum height of 15 feet. I recently
8:13:32 1 at a maximum height of 15 feet. I recently
18:13:40 2 approved the work plan to go to 30 feet and
8:13:40 2 approved the work plan to go to 30 feet and
18:13:42 3 that's temporary. And that work plan has
8:13:42 3 that's temporary. And that work plan has
18:13:44 4 been reviewed by some international
8:13:44 4 been reviewed by some international
18:13:48 5 engineers at AECOM, Geosyntec, and most
8:13:48 5 engineers at AECOM, Geosyntec, and most
18:13:52 6 importantly from my end, I brought in the
8:13:52 6 importantly from my end, I brought in the
18:13:56 7 national dam safety experts to review all
8:13:56 7 national dam safety experts to review all
18:14:00 8 our land-based operations including dikes,
8:14:00 8 our land-based operations including dikes,
18:14:04 9 materials handling, and storage of
8:14:04 9 materials handling, and storage of
18:14:06 10 materials. I'm very confident with the
8:14:06 10 materials. I'm very confident with the
18:14:08 11 work plan that they came up with, that that
8:14:08 11 work plan that they came up with, that that
18:14:12 12 30-feet height is safe and you won't
8:14:12 12 30-feet height is safe and you won't
18:14:16 13 experience what was experienced prior with
8:14:16 13 experience what was experienced prior with
18:14:18 14 the failed cell.
8:14:18 14 the failed cell.
18:14:22 15 I'd like to talk a little bit about
8:14:22 15 I'd like to talk a little bit about
18:14:24 16 the advisory and the closure that exists
8:14:24 16 the advisory and the closure that exists
17 that's set to expire. And the Coast Guard
18:14:32 18 is here. Raise your hand, Coast Guard.
8:14:32 18 is here. Raise your hand, Coast Guard.
18:14:32 19 Coast Guard is in the back. I have to
8:14:32 19 Coast Guard is in the back. I have to
18:14:34 20 coordinate these kind of decisions with the
8:14:34 20 coordinate these kind of decisions with the
18:14:36 21 Coast Guard. This is not considered a
8:14:36 21 Coast Guard. This is not considered a
18:14:38 22 commercial waterway. It's considered a
8:14:38 22 commercial waterway. It's considered a
18:14:42 23 recreational waterway. The Coast Guard has
8:14:42 23 recreational waterway. The Coast Guard has
18:14:46 24 been of great assistance both in terms of
8:14:46 24 been of great assistance both in terms of
18:14:48 25 health and safety oversight, exclusion zone
8:14:48 25 health and safety oversight, exclusion zone
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
19
18:14:54 1 control, and also taking care of how well
8:14:54 1 control, and also taking care of how well
18:14:58 2 traffic is managed within the Emory River.
8:14:58 2 traffic is managed within the Emory River.
18:15:02 3 There's a small navy working in the river.
8:15:02 3 There's a small navy working in the river.
18:15:06 4 The current closure -- is it
8:15:06 4 The current closure -- is it
18:15:10 5 February 10th? The 15th. The current
8:15:10 5 February 10th? The 15th. The current
18:15:14 6 closure is set to expire February 15th. We
8:15:14 6 closure is set to expire February 15th. We
18:15:18 7 will have to extend that. You saw on the
8:15:18 7 will have to extend that. You saw on the
18:15:22 8 previous slide that we'll be going to the
8:15:22 8 previous slide that we'll be going to the
18:15:24 9 first week in May to remove the overwhelming
8:15:24 9 first week in May to remove the overwhelming
18:15:28 10 amount of ash from the river. I'm not sure
8:15:28 10 amount of ash from the river. I'm not sure
18:15:34 11 -- this is such a small pointer. Can you
8:15:34 11 -- this is such a small pointer. Can you
18:15:38 12 folks see that from back there, this little
8:15:38 12 folks see that from back there, this little
18:15:40 13 red dot? It's hard. Huh? Let me play with
8:15:40 13 red dot? It's hard. Huh? Let me play with
18:15:44 14 this little arrow.
8:15:44 14 this little arrow.
18:15:46 15 The current closure boundaries are
8:15:46 15 The current closure boundaries are
18:15:48 16 right here and right there. There's an
8:15:48 16 right here and right there. There's an
18:15:52 17 advisory in the river from here to there,
8:15:52 17 advisory in the river from here to there,
18:15:56 18 Mile marker 4 to mile marker zero. But I
8:15:56 18 Mile marker 4 to mile marker zero. But I
18:16:00 19 have a closure within the advisory area
8:16:00 19 have a closure within the advisory area
18:16:02 20 because that's where the lion's share of the
8:16:02 20 because that's where the lion's share of the
18:16:04 21 navy works. I have to go get ash -- and I
8:16:04 21 navy works. I have to go get ash -- and I
18:16:10 22 really tried hard to get these -- they're
8:16:10 22 really tried hard to get these -- they're
18:16:14 23 called stratographs. We're doing a lot of
8:16:14 23 called stratographs. We're doing a lot of
18:16:16 24 quarrying in the river to find out where the
8:16:16 24 quarrying in the river to find out where the
18:16:18 25 rest of the ash is or has moved to. And I
8:16:18 25 rest of the ash is or has moved to. And I
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
20
18:16:22 1 didn't have -- I tried to get them ready for
8:16:22 1 didn't have -- I tried to get them ready for
18:16:24 2 this meeting and I got them at 5:30, so I
8:16:24 2 this meeting and I got them at 5:30, so I
18:16:26 3 apologize. There will be a work plan coming
8:16:26 3 apologize. There will be a work plan coming
18:16:28 4 out for the next phase of dredging where we
8:16:28 4 out for the next phase of dredging where we
18:16:30 5 go chase this material.
8:16:30 5 go chase this material.
18:16:32 6 So we have -- right along the right
8:16:32 6 So we have -- right along the right
18:16:38 7 side of this bank, we have ash that we have
8:16:38 7 side of this bank, we have ash that we have
18:16:44 8 to go chase, meaning I have to dredge down
8:16:44 8 to go chase, meaning I have to dredge down
18:16:48 9 there. I have a closure, of course, up to
8:16:48 9 there. I have a closure, of course, up to
18:16:52 10 here, you know, where I showed you that.
8:16:52 10 here, you know, where I showed you that.
18:16:54 11 This is so annoying. Sorry. I have the
8:16:54 11 This is so annoying. Sorry. I have the
18:17:00 12 closure up to there. I'm not quite sure
8:17:00 12 closure up to there. I'm not quite sure
18:17:02 13 whether the closure needs to be extended all
8:17:02 13 whether the closure needs to be extended all
18:17:06 14 the way to where we're working towards mile
8:17:06 14 the way to where we're working towards mile
18:17:08 15 marker zero. There may be some other ways.
8:17:08 15 marker zero. There may be some other ways.
18:17:10 16 I know that there's a fair amount of demand
8:17:10 16 I know that there's a fair amount of demand
18:17:14 17 for folks who want access in here. I'd like
8:17:14 17 for folks who want access in here. I'd like
18:17:20 18 some feedback after the meeting about maybe
8:17:20 18 some feedback after the meeting about maybe
18:17:22 19 there's some alternatives. It's basically
8:17:22 19 there's some alternatives. It's basically
18:17:24 20 I'll have a dredge out there with a dredge
8:17:24 20 I'll have a dredge out there with a dredge
18:17:26 21 pipe and I need a buffer zone of safety
8:17:26 21 pipe and I need a buffer zone of safety
18:17:30 22 around that pipe in order to ensure that no
8:17:30 22 around that pipe in order to ensure that no
18:17:32 23 one gets hurt. So, again, I'm sure that
8:17:32 23 one gets hurt. So, again, I'm sure that
18:17:38 24 will be part of the Q and A after the
8:17:38 24 will be part of the Q and A after the
18:17:40 25 presentation.
8:17:40 25 presentation.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
21
18:17:44 1 We do water quality monitoring.
8:17:44 1 We do water quality monitoring.
18:17:46 2 TVA does it twice a week. TDEC does it
8:17:46 2 TVA does it twice a week. TDEC does it
18:17:48 3 twice a week. There's also storm-based
8:17:48 3 twice a week. There's also storm-based
18:17:52 4 sampling. The trigger is more than half an
8:17:52 4 sampling. The trigger is more than half an
18:17:56 5 inch, more than an inch and/or an increase
8:17:56 5 inch, more than an inch and/or an increase
18:18:00 6 of over 5,000 cubic feet per second of
8:18:00 6 of over 5,000 cubic feet per second of
18:18:04 7 stream flow. I split samples with TVA for
8:18:04 7 stream flow. I split samples with TVA for
18:18:08 8 all storm events. There have been easily
8:18:08 8 all storm events. There have been easily
18:18:12 9 over a dozen storm events and to date in
8:18:12 9 over a dozen storm events and to date in
18:18:16 10 terms of my samples compared to their
8:18:16 10 terms of my samples compared to their
18:18:20 11 samples, we're within 1 or 2 percent of
8:18:20 11 samples, we're within 1 or 2 percent of
18:18:22 12 their sample results, which is actually kind
8:18:22 12 their sample results, which is actually kind
18:18:24 13 of unusual. I don't normally get that kind
8:18:24 13 of unusual. I don't normally get that kind
18:18:28 14 of accuracy in split samples.
8:18:28 14 of accuracy in split samples.
18:18:30 15 Again, to reiterate, TVA and TDEC
8:18:30 15 Again, to reiterate, TVA and TDEC
18:18:36 16 do monitoring that extends all the way down
8:18:36 16 do monitoring that extends all the way down
18:18:40 17 -- I'm going to try this little laser again.
8:18:40 17 -- I'm going to try this little laser again.
18:18:44 18 They extend their monitoring all the way
8:18:44 18 They extend their monitoring all the way
18:18:46 19 down to Tennessee River marker 563 and
8:18:46 19 down to Tennessee River marker 563 and
18:18:50 20 there's a whole lot of monitoring that takes
8:18:50 20 there's a whole lot of monitoring that takes
18:18:52 21 place right around the site proper. Let's
8:18:52 21 place right around the site proper. Let's
18:18:56 22 talk about those results a little bit.
8:18:56 22 talk about those results a little bit.
18:19:00 23 Two of the driving compounds or
8:19:00 23 Two of the driving compounds or
18:19:04 24 metals are arsenic and selenium. Arsenic by
8:19:04 24 metals are arsenic and selenium. Arsenic by
18:19:10 25 far is the best metal to track in terms of
8:19:10 25 far is the best metal to track in terms of
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
(423) 267-8059 (800) 261-8059
22
18:19:18 1 what is the impact of this ash spill in the
8:19:18 1 what is the impact of this ash spill in the
18:19:22 2 river. What you're looking at right there
8:19:22 2 river. What you're looking at right there
18:19:28 3 are -- is a graph on the right side. Can
8:19:28 3 are -- is a graph on the right side. Can
18:19:32 4 folks hear me if the mic moves away from my
8:19:32 4 folks hear me if the mic moves away from my
18:19:36 5 mouth? Okay. I'll do this. So the graph
8:19:36 5 mouth? Okay. I'll do this. So the graph
18:19:46 6 on the right side, the top one is embayment,
8:19:46 6 on the right side, the top one is embayment,
18:19:48 7 the second one is dredge plume, the third
8:19:48 7 the second one is dredge plume, the third
18:19:52 8 one is stilling pond, and the fourth one is
8:19:52 8 one is stilling pond, and the fourth one is
18:19:54 9 plant effluent. Then you have the Emory
8:19:54 9 plant effluent. Then you have the Emory
18:19:56 10 River, the Clinch, and the Tennessee.
8:19:56 10 River, the Clinch, and the Tennessee.
18:19:58 11 Over here, that's what we call the
8:19:58 11 Over here, that's what we call the
18:20:00 12 embayment. That's the plume area, that's
8:20:00 12 embayment. That's the plume area, that's
18:20:04 13 the stilling pond, and that's the plant
8:20:04 13 the stilling pond, and that's the plant
18:20:08 14 effluent. It's obvious when you look at the
8:20:08 14 effluent. It's obvious when you look at the
18:20:10 15 embayment sampling that there's elevated
8:20:10 15 embayment sampling that there's elevated
18:20:14 16 levels of arsenic, but they're below the
8:20:14 16 levels of arsenic, but they're below the
18:20:22 17 Tennessee fish and aquatic life criteria.
8:20:22 17 Tennessee fish and aquatic life criteria.
18:20:24 18 That's what all that green means. The red
8:20:24 18 That's what all that green means. The red
18:20:26 19 line on top is the exceedance concentration
8:20:26 19 line on top is the exceedance concentration
18:20:30 20 which is 150 parts per billion. In the
8:20:30 20 which is 150 parts per billion. In the
18:20:36 21 dredge plume itself, again you'll see
8:20:36 21 dredge plume itself, again you'll see
18:20:38 22 elevated levels of arsenic. Again they are
8:20:38 22 elevated levels of arsenic. Again they are
18:20:42 23 below the 150 parts per billion. But there
8:20:42 23 below the 150 parts per billion. But there
18:20:46 24 are elevated metals next to the -- right in
8:20:46 24 are elevated metals next to the -- right in
18:20:48 25 the spill zone.
8:20:48 25 the spill zone.
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18:20:52 1 Now we get to the stilling pond.
8:20:52 1 Now we get to the stilling pond.
18:20:54 2 The way the process works, in case folks
8:20:54 2 The way the process works, in case folks
18:20:58 3 haven't explained it to you before, we
8:20:58 3 haven't explained it to you before, we
18:21:00 4 dredge out of here and we draw up through
8:21:00 4 dredge out of here and we draw up through
18:21:02 5 what's called a rim ditch and a sluice
8:21:02 5 what's called a rim ditch and a sluice
18:21:08 6 trench. And all that really is is a place
8:21:08 6 trench. And all that really is is a place
18:21:10 7 to settle out the ash that we pull out of
8:21:10 7 to settle out the ash that we pull out of
18:21:12 8 the river. Then anything that doesn't
8:21:12 8 the river. Then anything that doesn't
18:21:14 9 settle out here, goes into this pond and
8:21:14 9 settle out here, goes into this pond and
18:21:16 10 then from that pond, it goes into another
8:21:16 10 then from that pond, it goes into another
18:21:18 11 pond and those are polishing steps.
8:21:18 11 pond and those are polishing steps.
18:21:22 12 At the stilling pond, TVA meets
8:21:22 12 At the stilling pond, TVA meets
18:21:26 13 their permit requirements. Their permit
8:21:26 13 their permit requirements. Their permit
18:21:30 14 requirements are primarily based on total
8:21:30 14 requirements are primarily based on total
18:21:32 15 suspended solids. We still do note that
8:21:32 15 suspended solids. We still do note that
18:21:36 16 there are elevated arsenic levels that come
8:21:36 16 there are elevated arsenic levels that come
18:21:40 17 about as part of our operations to remove
8:21:40 17 about as part of our operations to remove
18:21:42 18 the material from the water. You'll see
8:21:42 18 the material from the water. You'll see
18:21:46 19 some elevated levels here in the plant
8:21:46 19 some elevated levels here in the plant
18:21:50 20 effluent. That's right there. This water
8:21:50 20 effluent. That's right there. This water
18:21:52 21 eventually makes its way through here. The
8:21:52 21 eventually makes its way through here. The
18:21:56 22 Emory, the Clinch, and the Tennessee are
8:21:56 22 Emory, the Clinch, and the Tennessee are
18:22:00 23 pretty stable. There's not much evidence of
8:22:00 23 pretty stable. There's not much evidence of
18:22:04 24 elevated concentrations.
8:22:04 24 elevated concentrations.
18:22:12 25 Now, I think Randy noted that peak
8:22:12 25 Now, I think Randy noted that peak
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:22:16 1 storm sampling events, we -- this was
8:22:16 1 storm sampling events, we -- this was
18:22:20 2 actually before the order -- but we did not
8:22:20 2 actually before the order -- but we did not
18:22:24 3 sample during the May peak storm event and
8:22:24 3 sample during the May peak storm event and
18:22:28 4 we did not sample during the December peak
8:22:28 4 we did not sample during the December peak
18:22:30 5 storm event. Since then, through the CAG's
8:22:30 5 storm event. Since then, through the CAG's
18:22:34 6 encouragement and suggestion, TVA has
8:22:34 6 encouragement and suggestion, TVA has
18:22:36 7 installed a custom built -- I think they
8:22:36 7 installed a custom built -- I think they
18:22:40 8 built it in five weeks -- remote sampler
8:22:40 8 built it in five weeks -- remote sampler
18:22:42 9 that can catch the peaks for these storm
8:22:42 9 that can catch the peaks for these storm
18:22:44 10 events. But all that data that you're
8:22:44 10 events. But all that data that you're
18:22:46 11 looking at, all that data that you're
8:22:46 11 looking at, all that data that you're
18:22:48 12 looking at right there includes many storm
8:22:48 12 looking at right there includes many storm
18:22:50 13 events.
8:22:50 13 events.
18:22:50 14 What we're finding is that 5,000
8:22:50 14 What we're finding is that 5,000
18:22:54 15 CFS, 10,000 CFS, 15,000 CFS -- we haven't
8:22:54 15 CFS, 10,000 CFS, 15,000 CFS -- we haven't
18:23:02 16 had many between 15,000 and 50. But up to
8:23:02 16 had many between 15,000 and 50. But up to
18:23:04 17 15,000 we're seeing minimal migration.
8:23:04 17 15,000 we're seeing minimal migration.
18:23:10 18 Above 15,000 when you start to hit these 50s
8:23:10 18 Above 15,000 when you start to hit these 50s
18:23:12 19 and 60s, I'll show you another slide because
8:23:12 19 and 60s, I'll show you another slide because
18:23:16 20 we do have migration during these events.
8:23:16 20 we do have migration during these events.
18:23:18 21 All right. Selenium. The selenium
8:23:18 21 All right. Selenium. The selenium
18:23:24 22 standard is 5 parts per billion. It's a
8:23:24 22 standard is 5 parts per billion. It's a
18:23:26 23 fish and aquatic life standard. Again
8:23:26 23 fish and aquatic life standard. Again
18:23:28 24 you'll see -- sorry. Again you'll see that
8:23:28 24 you'll see -- sorry. Again you'll see that
18:23:50 25 the green means -- this red line, that's the
8:23:50 25 the green means -- this red line, that's the
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18:23:52 1 standard line. That's 5 parts per billion.
8:23:52 1 standard line. That's 5 parts per billion.
18:23:54 2 You'll see in the plant effluent, the
8:23:54 2 You'll see in the plant effluent, the
18:23:58 3 Tennessee, the Clinch, and the Emory River
8:23:58 3 Tennessee, the Clinch, and the Emory River
18:24:02 4 you meet that criteria. This is water
8:24:02 4 you meet that criteria. This is water
18:24:04 5 quality. But you'll also see that out of
8:24:04 5 quality. But you'll also see that out of
18:24:06 6 the stilling pond and a little bit out of
8:24:06 6 the stilling pond and a little bit out of
18:24:08 7 the dredge plume and certainly out of the
8:24:08 7 the dredge plume and certainly out of the
18:24:12 8 embayment area that selenium is generated
8:24:12 8 embayment area that selenium is generated
18:24:16 9 that exceeds this criteria.
8:24:16 9 that exceeds this criteria.
18:24:18 10 Now, the good news is that this
8:24:18 10 Now, the good news is that this
18:24:22 11 selenium -- this embayment sampling, we're
8:24:22 11 selenium -- this embayment sampling, we're
18:24:26 12 actually towards the tail end of the
8:24:26 12 actually towards the tail end of the
18:24:28 13 embayment cleanup. We probably have
8:24:28 13 embayment cleanup. We probably have
18:24:30 14 another, I believe, 40,000 yards to pull out
8:24:30 14 another, I believe, 40,000 yards to pull out
18:24:34 15 of the embayment. That drainage that comes
8:24:34 15 of the embayment. That drainage that comes
18:24:36 16 out of there is now closed off. We're doing
8:24:36 16 out of there is now closed off. We're doing
18:24:38 17 that as a final polishing dig. You can
8:24:38 17 that as a final polishing dig. You can
18:24:42 18 already see when you blow up this -- when
8:24:42 18 already see when you blow up this -- when
18:24:44 19 you blow up this data and look at it in the
8:24:44 19 you blow up this data and look at it in the
18:24:46 20 longer time line, you can see that as you
8:24:46 20 longer time line, you can see that as you
18:24:50 21 remove the ash, you reduce these metal
8:24:50 21 remove the ash, you reduce these metal
18:24:56 22 concentrations.
8:24:56 22 concentrations.
18:24:56 23 Okay. Let's talk about migration.
8:24:56 23 Okay. Let's talk about migration.
18:25:00 24 What you're looking at, this map was
8:25:00 24 What you're looking at, this map was
18:25:04 25 generated I believe it was the first couple
8:25:04 25 generated I believe it was the first couple
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18:25:06 1 of weeks that EPA and TVA had joined in this
8:25:06 1 of weeks that EPA and TVA had joined in this
18:25:10 2 order. Originally we had estimated -- we
8:25:10 2 order. Originally we had estimated -- we
18:25:14 3 did this with basic information that was
8:25:14 3 did this with basic information that was
18:25:16 4 available, incomplete information. And we
8:25:16 4 available, incomplete information. And we
18:25:20 5 had originally estimated between 75,000 and
8:25:20 5 had originally estimated between 75,000 and
18:25:24 6 200,000 yards of ash had moved during that
8:25:24 6 200,000 yards of ash had moved during that
18:25:26 7 storm event. Since then the corps has been
8:25:26 7 storm event. Since then the corps has been
18:25:30 8 very good -- that's the corps out of
8:25:30 8 very good -- that's the corps out of
18:25:32 9 Mississippi. I'm using a gentleman, another
8:25:32 9 Mississippi. I'm using a gentleman, another
18:25:34 10 national expert who's very familiar with how
8:25:34 10 national expert who's very familiar with how
18:25:38 11 to use this transport model. So his most
8:25:38 11 to use this transport model. So his most
18:25:42 12 recent calculations are between 100,000 and
8:25:42 12 recent calculations are between 100,000 and
18:25:46 13 150,000 yards migrated during the May event
8:25:46 13 150,000 yards migrated during the May event
18:25:48 14 in 2009 and the speed of the Emory was
8:25:48 14 in 2009 and the speed of the Emory was
18:25:54 15 70,000 CFS, cubic feet per second.
8:25:54 15 70,000 CFS, cubic feet per second.
18:25:58 16 Now, the December event we had
8:25:58 16 Now, the December event we had
18:26:00 17 50,000 cubic feet per second. Again,
8:26:00 17 50,000 cubic feet per second. Again,
18:26:04 18 model-wise, we only moved 10 to 20,000 cubic
8:26:04 18 model-wise, we only moved 10 to 20,000 cubic
18:26:10 19 yards. Then I had them working feverishly
8:26:10 19 yards. Then I had them working feverishly
18:26:14 20 today to figure out how much moved during
8:26:14 20 today to figure out how much moved during
18:26:16 21 this event and his model predicts 10 to
8:26:16 21 this event and his model predicts 10 to
18:26:22 22 20,000 cubic yards. So I look at that and I
8:26:22 22 20,000 cubic yards. So I look at that and I
18:26:24 23 say, well, what changed? You know, why did
8:26:24 23 say, well, what changed? You know, why did
18:26:26 24 I move 100 to 150,000 in May and I only
8:26:26 24 I move 100 to 150,000 in May and I only
18:26:28 25 moved 10 to 20 in December and January? And
8:26:28 25 moved 10 to 20 in December and January? And
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18:26:32 1 the main answer is, remember that image that
8:26:32 1 the main answer is, remember that image that
18:26:34 2 I showed you, the blue and yellow image
8:26:34 2 I showed you, the blue and yellow image
18:26:38 3 where the plug was sitting in the river?
8:26:38 3 where the plug was sitting in the river?
18:26:40 4 Once you remove the plug, you significantly
8:26:40 4 Once you remove the plug, you significantly
18:26:44 5 change the force of all this water hitting
8:26:44 5 change the force of all this water hitting
18:26:50 6 the plug and scouring it and then that force
8:26:50 6 the plug and scouring it and then that force
18:26:54 7 just pushes the ash down river because it's
8:26:54 7 just pushes the ash down river because it's
18:26:58 8 hit resistance.
8:26:58 8 hit resistance.
18:26:58 9 Well, now the channel is open.
8:26:58 9 Well, now the channel is open.
18:27:00 10 We're now into the last phase of the
8:27:00 10 We're now into the last phase of the
18:27:04 11 time-critical dredging where we're getting
8:27:04 11 time-critical dredging where we're getting
18:27:08 12 -- we're really not dealing with the plug
8:27:08 12 -- we're really not dealing with the plug
18:27:10 13 anymore. So once you've removed that plug,
8:27:10 13 anymore. So once you've removed that plug,
18:27:12 14 you change the dynamics of how much force is
8:27:12 14 you change the dynamics of how much force is
18:27:16 15 present to push that ash down river. So
8:27:16 15 present to push that ash down river. So
18:27:18 16 that's why those numbers have changed so
8:27:18 16 that's why those numbers have changed so
18:27:20 17 dramatically. 10 to 20 versus 100 to
8:27:20 17 dramatically. 10 to 20 versus 100 to
18:27:26 18 150,000. So, yes, we have migration at
8:27:26 18 150,000. So, yes, we have migration at
18:27:32 19 these high events. We don't appear to have
8:27:32 19 these high events. We don't appear to have
18:27:32 20 substantial migration, 15,000 CFS and below.
8:27:32 20 substantial migration, 15,000 CFS and below.
18:27:38 21 But when you get up to these numbers, there
8:27:38 21 But when you get up to these numbers, there
18:27:40 22 is migration. As you remove that ash,
8:27:40 22 is migration. As you remove that ash,
18:27:42 23 there's less migration. As you remove that
8:27:42 23 there's less migration. As you remove that
18:27:46 24 plug, you have an order of magnitude
8:27:46 24 plug, you have an order of magnitude
18:27:48 25 difference in migration threat from a pretty
8:27:48 25 difference in migration threat from a pretty
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18:27:52 1 close to the May event storm -- the May
8:27:52 1 close to the May event storm -- the May
18:27:56 2 storm event.
8:27:56 2 storm event.
18:27:58 3 Now, I caution everybody. Models
8:27:58 3 Now, I caution everybody. Models
18:28:00 4 are nice. They're estimates. This map that
8:28:00 4 are nice. They're estimates. This map that
18:28:06 5 you're looking at, that's an estimate. Our
8:28:06 5 you're looking at, that's an estimate. Our
18:28:08 6 original 75 to 200,000 estimate, that was an
8:28:08 6 original 75 to 200,000 estimate, that was an
18:28:12 7 estimate. All this data never arrives at a
8:28:12 7 estimate. All this data never arrives at a
18:28:18 8 final answer where, you know, I could call
8:28:18 8 final answer where, you know, I could call
18:28:22 9 my mother up and say, hey, you know, mom,
8:28:22 9 my mother up and say, hey, you know, mom,
18:28:26 10 this is the answer. They're all suspect to
8:28:26 10 this is the answer. They're all suspect to
18:28:28 11 their own variability.
8:28:28 11 their own variability.
18:28:30 12 So I look at this and I look at it
8:28:30 12 So I look at this and I look at it
18:28:32 13 in terms of a more macro concept of threat
8:28:32 13 in terms of a more macro concept of threat
18:28:38 14 of migration is diminishing. That's the
8:28:38 14 of migration is diminishing. That's the
18:28:40 15 number one point I take from this, is that
8:28:40 15 number one point I take from this, is that
18:28:42 16 I'm still migrating during big storms, but
8:28:42 16 I'm still migrating during big storms, but
18:28:46 17 threat of migration has diminished by an
8:28:46 17 threat of migration has diminished by an
18:28:50 18 order of magnitude.
8:28:50 18 order of magnitude.
18:28:52 19 Next slide. The primary threat
8:28:52 19 Next slide. The primary threat
18:28:54 20 here in terms of water is people drinking
8:28:54 20 here in terms of water is people drinking
18:29:00 21 contaminated water. That's not happening.
8:29:00 21 contaminated water. That's not happening.
18:29:02 22 This facility gets sampled every day with
8:29:02 22 This facility gets sampled every day with
18:29:04 23 oversight from TDEC and the treated water
8:29:04 23 oversight from TDEC and the treated water
18:29:06 24 has met what are called MCLs, maximum
8:29:06 24 has met what are called MCLs, maximum
18:29:12 25 contaminant levels. And I believe -- and
8:29:12 25 contaminant levels. And I believe -- and
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18:29:16 1 correct me if I'm wrong, Barbara -- but the
8:29:16 1 correct me if I'm wrong, Barbara -- but the
18:29:18 2 untreated water also met MCLs going into the
8:29:18 2 untreated water also met MCLs going into the
18:29:22 3 facility. But Barbara is my counterpart
8:29:22 3 facility. But Barbara is my counterpart
18:29:24 4 with TDEC. That's correct.
8:29:24 4 with TDEC. That's correct.
18:29:32 5 All right. So what does this mean?
8:29:32 5 All right. So what does this mean?
18:29:34 6 Water adjacent to the site has elevated
8:29:34 6 Water adjacent to the site has elevated
18:29:36 7 metals. Migration does occur at the highest
8:29:36 7 metals. Migration does occur at the highest
18:29:38 8 flow events. I already talked about those
8:29:38 8 flow events. I already talked about those
18:29:38 9 numbers. I've already talked about at the
8:29:38 9 numbers. I've already talked about at the
18:29:42 10 request of the CAG, TVA has installed this
8:29:42 10 request of the CAG, TVA has installed this
18:29:44 11 custom built device. Y'all see contaminant
8:29:44 11 custom built device. Y'all see contaminant
18:29:48 12 data at -- that's mile marker point 5;
8:29:48 12 data at -- that's mile marker point 5;
18:29:54 13 right? And it's a depth that -- Steve, you
8:29:54 13 right? And it's a depth that -- Steve, you
18:29:54 14 asked me about this I think a week ago.
8:29:54 14 asked me about this I think a week ago.
18:29:58 15 It's a depth of 15 feet, that sampling
8:29:58 15 It's a depth of 15 feet, that sampling
18:30:04 16 station. Is that correct? I think they've
8:30:04 16 station. Is that correct? I think they've
18:30:10 17 -- this event will be their third or fourth
8:30:10 17 -- this event will be their third or fourth
18:30:12 18 event. Third. Again, drinking water
8:30:12 18 event. Third. Again, drinking water
18:30:18 19 continues to meet the criteria.
8:30:18 19 continues to meet the criteria.
18:30:20 20 All right. We did a -- we have
8:30:20 20 All right. We did a -- we have
18:30:24 21 done several audits on site. I've done
8:30:24 21 done several audits on site. I've done
18:30:26 22 health and safety audits, again with
8:30:26 22 health and safety audits, again with
18:30:28 23 national experts. We've already had two
8:30:28 23 national experts. We've already had two
18:30:30 24 prior air data audits. This time we did a
8:30:30 24 prior air data audits. This time we did a
18:30:34 25 multimedia audit where we looked at all
8:30:34 25 multimedia audit where we looked at all
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18:30:38 1 media, air, sediment, soil, water, biota.
8:30:38 1 media, air, sediment, soil, water, biota.
18:30:44 2 For soil, sediment, water and biota, no
8:30:44 2 For soil, sediment, water and biota, no
18:30:44 3 significant deficiencies.
8:30:44 3 significant deficiencies.
18:30:46 4 For air, all of the air data was
8:30:46 4 For air, all of the air data was
18:30:52 5 good except for this component. These are
8:30:52 5 good except for this component. These are
18:30:56 6 PM 2.5 and PM 10 particulate filter media.
8:30:56 6 PM 2.5 and PM 10 particulate filter media.
18:31:04 7 That's a station. Looks like about that
8:31:04 7 That's a station. Looks like about that
18:31:06 8 except it's aluminum, sucks air, sucks air
8:31:06 8 except it's aluminum, sucks air, sucks air
18:31:08 9 through a filter media. We have five
8:31:08 9 through a filter media. We have five
18:31:10 10 primary stations. I'll walk you through
8:31:10 10 primary stations. I'll walk you through
18:31:12 11 this.
8:31:12 11 this.
18:31:18 12 Next slide. That's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
8:31:18 12 Next slide. That's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
18:31:20 13 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. This is the Harriman
8:31:20 13 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. This is the Harriman
18:31:26 14 compliance station. That's part of the
8:31:26 14 compliance station. That's part of the
18:31:30 15 Clean Air Act. I don't really depend on
8:31:30 15 Clean Air Act. I don't really depend on
18:31:32 16 this very much because it's kind of removed
8:31:32 16 this very much because it's kind of removed
18:31:34 17 from the site. It's good for larger,
8:31:34 17 from the site. It's good for larger,
18:31:36 18 regional trends, but it's really not the
8:31:36 18 regional trends, but it's really not the
18:31:38 19 best tool for managing what's going on on
8:31:38 19 best tool for managing what's going on on
18:31:42 20 the site. Each one of these stations does
8:31:42 20 the site. Each one of these stations does
18:31:44 21 some type of filter-based media. From
8:31:44 21 some type of filter-based media. From
18:31:48 22 September to January, that data did not meet
8:31:48 22 September to January, that data did not meet
18:31:52 23 quality assurance. In Agency speak, in
8:31:52 23 quality assurance. In Agency speak, in
18:32:00 24 Government speak, we do what's called a
8:32:00 24 Government speak, we do what's called a
18:32:02 25 quality assurance project plan. It's pretty
8:32:02 25 quality assurance project plan. It's pretty
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18:32:06 1 rigid. It's pretty disciplined. Data, for
8:32:06 1 rigid. It's pretty disciplined. Data, for
18:32:16 2 whatever reason, whether it's done with the
8:32:16 2 whatever reason, whether it's done with the
18:32:16 3 wrong method or whether it's collected
8:32:16 3 wrong method or whether it's collected
18:32:20 4 improperly or if your sampling plan doesn't
8:32:20 4 improperly or if your sampling plan doesn't
18:32:22 5 make sense in terms of the question you're
8:32:22 5 make sense in terms of the question you're
18:32:24 6 trying to answer, that data will get
8:32:24 6 trying to answer, that data will get
18:32:28 7 rejected, meaning it won't enter into the
8:32:28 7 rejected, meaning it won't enter into the
18:32:30 8 environmental database for decision making.
8:32:30 8 environmental database for decision making.
18:32:34 9 This data -- and so that's that
8:32:34 9 This data -- and so that's that
18:32:36 10 bullet right there. This data from these
8:32:36 10 bullet right there. This data from these
18:32:38 11 filter-based samples does not meet that
8:32:38 11 filter-based samples does not meet that
18:32:42 12 criteria. It didn't meet QA. So we're not
8:32:42 12 criteria. It didn't meet QA. So we're not
18:32:46 13 using that data for this site. However,
8:32:46 13 using that data for this site. However,
18:32:50 14 other data did meet criteria, this quality
8:32:50 14 other data did meet criteria, this quality
18:32:54 15 assured criteria. This location right here,
8:32:54 15 assured criteria. This location right here,
18:32:56 16 this station, that's the most important
8:32:56 16 this station, that's the most important
18:32:58 17 station on the site. That's downwind of the
8:32:58 17 station on the site. That's downwind of the
18:33:02 18 prevailing winds. It's loaded with a
8:33:02 18 prevailing winds. It's loaded with a
18:33:04 19 variety of different sampling. You have a
8:33:04 19 variety of different sampling. You have a
18:33:08 20 continuous monitor for PM 10. That's
8:33:08 20 continuous monitor for PM 10. That's
18:33:12 21 particulate matter 10, bigger sized
8:33:12 21 particulate matter 10, bigger sized
18:33:16 22 particles. You have a continuous monitor
8:33:16 22 particles. You have a continuous monitor
18:33:16 23 for PM 2.5. That's the smaller piece.
8:33:16 23 for PM 2.5. That's the smaller piece.
18:33:20 24 That's the particles that go deeper into
8:33:20 24 That's the particles that go deeper into
18:33:22 25 your lungs. That's also silica monitoring
8:33:22 25 your lungs. That's also silica monitoring
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:33:26 1 that takes place there, there's metals
8:33:26 1 that takes place there, there's metals
18:33:26 2 monitoring that takes place there. And what
8:33:26 2 monitoring that takes place there. And what
18:33:32 3 else? That's also where TDEC has their own
8:33:32 3 else? That's also where TDEC has their own
18:33:36 4 station. That's the TDEC station.
8:33:36 4 station. That's the TDEC station.
18:33:40 5 All that data that I just
8:33:40 5 All that data that I just
18:33:42 6 described, TEOMs, the metals, they met
8:33:42 6 described, TEOMs, the metals, they met
18:33:48 7 quality assurance. The data that did not
8:33:48 7 quality assurance. The data that did not
18:33:52 8 meet it from September until January --
8:33:52 8 meet it from September until January --
18:33:54 9 again, I'm reiterating it -- is this filter-
8:33:54 9 again, I'm reiterating it -- is this filter-
18:33:56 10 based media that's pulled from these -- that
8:33:56 10 based media that's pulled from these -- that
18:33:58 11 pulls not only from this station, but from
8:33:58 11 pulls not only from this station, but from
18:34:00 12 this station, this station, this station,
8:34:00 12 this station, this station, this station,
18:34:02 13 and this station. I also have other data
8:34:02 13 and this station. I also have other data
18:34:06 14 that meet QA. There is -- and I'll go
8:34:06 14 that meet QA. There is -- and I'll go
18:34:10 15 through this with you.
8:34:10 15 through this with you.
18:34:14 16 The first question that comes to my
8:34:14 16 The first question that comes to my
18:34:18 17 mind is, oh, my goodness, I've got data here
8:34:18 17 mind is, oh, my goodness, I've got data here
18:34:24 18 from September to January where people were
8:34:24 18 from September to January where people were
18:34:26 19 put at risk. Similar -- you know, a similar
8:34:26 19 put at risk. Similar -- you know, a similar
18:34:30 20 reaction like anybody else. And so the
8:34:30 20 reaction like anybody else. And so the
18:34:34 21 first thing I do is I go and I look at what
8:34:34 21 first thing I do is I go and I look at what
18:34:40 22 do my other systems tell me? This is --
8:34:40 22 do my other systems tell me? This is --
18:34:44 23 there's backup systems here. It's not just
8:34:44 23 there's backup systems here. It's not just
18:34:46 24 one system that we depend on. This is too
8:34:46 24 one system that we depend on. This is too
18:34:50 25 important an issue to depend on one system.
8:34:50 25 important an issue to depend on one system.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:34:52 1 When you look at those systems,
8:34:52 1 When you look at those systems,
18:34:54 2 those other backup systems, the Agency is
8:34:54 2 those other backup systems, the Agency is
18:34:56 3 confident that the public was not put at
8:34:56 3 confident that the public was not put at
18:34:58 4 risk during this period, and I'll walk you
8:34:58 4 risk during this period, and I'll walk you
18:35:00 5 through that. I'll show you what these
8:35:00 5 through that. I'll show you what these
18:35:02 6 other systems show. Science speak, they
8:35:02 6 other systems show. Science speak, they
18:35:04 7 call it redundant systems. In English
8:35:04 7 call it redundant systems. In English
18:35:08 8 that's just, you know, backup systems.
8:35:08 8 that's just, you know, backup systems.
18:35:12 9 The strongest weight of evidence
8:35:12 9 The strongest weight of evidence
18:35:16 10 that makes the Agency confident that the
8:35:16 10 that makes the Agency confident that the
18:35:18 11 public was not put at risk are these TEOMs.
8:35:18 11 public was not put at risk are these TEOMs.
18:35:24 12 A TEOM is nothing more than a fancy word for
8:35:24 12 A TEOM is nothing more than a fancy word for
18:35:26 13 continuous monitor. It monitors all the
8:35:26 13 continuous monitor. It monitors all the
18:35:28 14 time, all on its own. Nobody touches it,
8:35:28 14 time, all on its own. Nobody touches it,
18:35:30 15 nobody deals with it, and it records
8:35:30 15 nobody deals with it, and it records
18:35:32 16 information. I believe it's every -- it's
8:35:32 16 information. I believe it's every -- it's
18:35:36 17 on a set maintenance pattern where someone
8:35:36 17 on a set maintenance pattern where someone
18:35:38 18 has to go check out to make sure that it's
8:35:38 18 has to go check out to make sure that it's
18:35:42 19 calibrated correctly, that there's no
8:35:42 19 calibrated correctly, that there's no
18:35:44 20 imminent failure with any of the parts.
8:35:44 20 imminent failure with any of the parts.
18:35:48 21 And it's located in the worst case
8:35:48 21 And it's located in the worst case
18:35:52 22 location. PS-07. PS-07 is the worst case
8:35:52 22 location. PS-07. PS-07 is the worst case
18:35:58 23 because that's downwind of the prevailing
8:35:58 23 because that's downwind of the prevailing
18:36:00 24 winds as close as possible to the site. We
8:36:00 24 winds as close as possible to the site. We
18:36:02 25 put it there for a reason. We put it there
8:36:02 25 put it there for a reason. We put it there
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:36:04 1 because we knew that that's the worst case
8:36:04 1 because we knew that that's the worst case
18:36:08 2 place to put this in order to pick up on any
8:36:08 2 place to put this in order to pick up on any
18:36:10 3 problems that come from future emissions.
8:36:10 3 problems that come from future emissions.
18:36:16 4 What we have found over the past
8:36:16 4 What we have found over the past
18:36:18 5 year is that the concentrations that were
8:36:18 5 year is that the concentrations that were
18:36:22 6 picked up by not only the TEOM -- remember,
8:36:22 6 picked up by not only the TEOM -- remember,
18:36:26 7 I said from September to January that data
8:36:26 7 I said from September to January that data
18:36:28 8 was rejected from the particulate
8:36:28 8 was rejected from the particulate
18:36:30 9 monitors -- but from January to September,
8:36:30 9 monitors -- but from January to September,
18:36:34 10 those filter-based particulate monitors,
8:36:34 10 those filter-based particulate monitors,
18:36:40 11 that data is quality assured. That's good
8:36:40 11 that data is quality assured. That's good
18:36:40 12 data. So I can actually compare. And the
8:36:40 12 data. So I can actually compare. And the
18:36:44 13 TEOMs ran at the same time, so I can
8:36:44 13 TEOMs ran at the same time, so I can
18:36:44 14 actually compare, well, how well does the
8:36:44 14 actually compare, well, how well does the
18:36:46 15 TEOM track this lab-based data that meets
8:36:46 15 TEOM track this lab-based data that meets
18:36:52 16 quality assurance. So now I have to look to
8:36:52 16 quality assurance. So now I have to look to
18:36:54 17 see whether this, again, backup system
8:36:54 17 see whether this, again, backup system
18:36:58 18 tracks well, what this QA data did from
8:36:58 18 tracks well, what this QA data did from
18:37:02 19 January to September.
8:37:02 19 January to September.
18:37:06 20 So let's look -- and they tracked
8:37:06 20 So let's look -- and they tracked
18:37:08 21 it well, so let's look at a few graphs.
8:37:08 21 it well, so let's look at a few graphs.
18:37:12 22 Okay. Up in the top is a red line. That's
8:37:12 22 Okay. Up in the top is a red line. That's
18:37:18 23 150 micrograms per cubic meter. That's the
8:37:18 23 150 micrograms per cubic meter. That's the
18:37:24 24 national ambient air quality standard. On
8:37:24 24 national ambient air quality standard. On
18:37:26 25 this site, we use 120 -- excuse me -- 112 as
8:37:26 25 this site, we use 120 -- excuse me -- 112 as
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:37:34 1 our action level. That's when project
8:37:34 1 our action level. That's when project
18:37:36 2 management steps back and says, "Hey, what
8:37:36 2 management steps back and says, "Hey, what
18:37:38 3 are we doing wrong here? We're approaching
8:37:38 3 are we doing wrong here? We're approaching
18:37:40 4 the 150." These are weekly averages. The
8:37:40 4 the 150." These are weekly averages. The
18:37:44 5 dailies are available if anybody wants them.
8:37:44 5 dailies are available if anybody wants them.
18:37:46 6 The CAG requested it last night and I
8:37:46 6 The CAG requested it last night and I
18:37:48 7 believe we have the CD ready.
8:37:48 7 believe we have the CD ready.
18:37:52 8 What you see here is -- the first
8:37:52 8 What you see here is -- the first
18:37:56 9 thing that is most important to see is look
8:37:56 9 thing that is most important to see is look
18:38:02 10 how low this number is, 20. This is PM 10.
8:38:02 10 how low this number is, 20. This is PM 10.
18:38:06 11 Again, my action is 112 and 150 is the NAAQS
8:38:06 11 Again, my action is 112 and 150 is the NAAQS
18:38:12 12 standard, National Ambient Air Quality
8:38:12 12 standard, National Ambient Air Quality
18:38:16 13 Standard. The second thing to see is all
8:38:16 13 Standard. The second thing to see is all
18:38:18 14 this data that's quality data, you'll see
8:38:18 14 this data that's quality data, you'll see
18:38:20 15 here in September the graph does not include
8:38:20 15 here in September the graph does not include
18:38:24 16 that filter-based media. It doesn't include
8:38:24 16 that filter-based media. It doesn't include
18:38:26 17 it from here to here. But you'll see that
8:38:26 17 it from here to here. But you'll see that
18:38:30 18 this TEOM at PS -- at Station 7, the worst
8:38:30 18 this TEOM at PS -- at Station 7, the worst
18:38:32 19 case station, it tracks the general air
8:38:32 19 case station, it tracks the general air
18:38:34 20 quality for the site fairly well.
8:38:34 20 quality for the site fairly well.
18:38:38 21 So if everything broke down on the
8:38:38 21 So if everything broke down on the
18:38:40 22 site except for these two TEOMs, there's a
8:38:40 22 site except for these two TEOMs, there's a
18:38:44 23 second one for 2.5, if every other system
8:38:44 23 second one for 2.5, if every other system
18:38:46 24 we're using for air monitoring broke down, I
8:38:46 24 we're using for air monitoring broke down, I
18:38:50 25 could stand here and tell you that the
8:38:50 25 could stand here and tell you that the
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:38:52 1 public was protected during this period.
8:38:52 1 public was protected during this period.
18:38:56 2 Fund lead jobs are often run very cost
8:38:56 2 Fund lead jobs are often run very cost
18:39:04 3 effectively. I don't have the luxury of
8:39:04 3 effectively. I don't have the luxury of
18:39:06 4 redundant systems. If I had to do a fund
8:39:06 4 redundant systems. If I had to do a fund
18:39:10 5 lead job, meaning one that the taxpayer paid
8:39:10 5 lead job, meaning one that the taxpayer paid
18:39:12 6 for, this TEOM would suffice at Station 7
8:39:12 6 for, this TEOM would suffice at Station 7
18:39:18 7 for me doing the fund lead job to give the
8:39:18 7 for me doing the fund lead job to give the
18:39:20 8 Agency confidence that the public was not
8:39:20 8 Agency confidence that the public was not
18:39:24 9 put at risk.
8:39:24 9 put at risk.
18:39:30 10 Next slide. That's 2.5. Remember
8:39:30 10 Next slide. That's 2.5. Remember
18:39:34 11 I told you there's 10 and there's 2.5. So,
8:39:34 11 I told you there's 10 and there's 2.5. So,
18:39:38 12 again, from here to here that's all
8:39:38 12 again, from here to here that's all
18:39:42 13 particulate filter-based media samples, all
8:39:42 13 particulate filter-based media samples, all
18:39:44 14 good QA data. The 2.5 tracks this well --
8:39:44 14 good QA data. The 2.5 tracks this well --
18:39:50 15 as well. And so that's the second thing you
8:39:50 15 as well. And so that's the second thing you
18:39:54 16 should look at. The first thing you should
8:39:54 16 should look at. The first thing you should
18:39:56 17 look at is 35 is the National Ambient Air
8:39:56 17 look at is 35 is the National Ambient Air
18:40:02 18 Quality criteria, 25 is the site trigger.
8:40:02 18 Quality criteria, 25 is the site trigger.
18:40:04 19 Again, we don't approach that number during
8:40:04 19 Again, we don't approach that number during
18:40:06 20 any period of time and even during the
8:40:06 20 any period of time and even during the
18:40:08 21 summer. Yeah, we had a slight elevation
8:40:08 21 summer. Yeah, we had a slight elevation
18:40:10 22 during the summer, but we didn't approach
8:40:10 22 during the summer, but we didn't approach
18:40:14 23 this and we didn't approach this.
8:40:14 23 this and we didn't approach this.
18:40:20 24 Additional weights of evidence.
8:40:20 24 Additional weights of evidence.
18:40:24 25 We've got guys that ride around in a truck.
8:40:24 25 We've got guys that ride around in a truck.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:40:26 1 They sample PM 10 measurements every two
8:40:26 1 They sample PM 10 measurements every two
18:40:30 2 minutes. When they pull a sample, it takes
8:40:30 2 minutes. When they pull a sample, it takes
18:40:32 3 two minutes to pull an air sample. Then
8:40:32 3 two minutes to pull an air sample. Then
18:40:36 4 they drive to another location and they pull
8:40:36 4 they drive to another location and they pull
18:40:38 5 an air sample and it takes two minutes. We
8:40:38 5 an air sample and it takes two minutes. We
18:40:40 6 have every day -- between 2 and 400 of those
8:40:40 6 have every day -- between 2 and 400 of those
18:40:44 7 samples pulled every day. Over a period of
8:40:44 7 samples pulled every day. Over a period of
18:40:46 8 a week, over a period of months, you're then
8:40:46 8 a week, over a period of months, you're then
18:40:50 9 looking at thousands of PM 10 samples around
8:40:50 9 looking at thousands of PM 10 samples around
18:40:54 10 the site. And I guess these guys figure out
8:40:54 10 the site. And I guess these guys figure out
18:41:00 11 a path that they're assigned to work, a
8:41:00 11 a path that they're assigned to work, a
18:41:04 12 roadway path.
8:41:04 12 roadway path.
18:41:08 13 Second. Another line of evidence
8:41:08 13 Second. Another line of evidence
18:41:08 14 is that we have industrial hygiene samples
8:41:08 14 is that we have industrial hygiene samples
18:41:14 15 taken for workers. During this period of
8:41:14 15 taken for workers. During this period of
18:41:16 16 time from September until January, we had
8:41:16 16 time from September until January, we had
18:41:18 17 over 150 of them. They measure -- my
8:41:18 17 over 150 of them. They measure -- my
18:41:24 18 trigger level for workers is -- okay,
8:41:24 18 trigger level for workers is -- okay,
18:41:30 19 everybody knows what OSHA is. The trigger
8:41:30 19 everybody knows what OSHA is. The trigger
18:41:32 20 level that's used on the site for worker
8:41:32 20 level that's used on the site for worker
18:41:36 21 protection is one-fourth of the Tennessee
8:41:36 21 protection is one-fourth of the Tennessee
18:41:40 22 OSHA level, one-fourth. That's 25
8:41:40 22 OSHA level, one-fourth. That's 25
18:41:42 23 micrograms per cubic meter.
8:41:42 23 micrograms per cubic meter.
18:41:46 24 Then the last line of evidence that
8:41:46 24 Then the last line of evidence that
18:41:50 25 gives the Agency some common sense that,
8:41:50 25 gives the Agency some common sense that,
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:41:52 1 hey, what was the weather like? It rained
8:41:52 1 hey, what was the weather like? It rained
18:41:56 2 40 percent of the time is -- I think I read
8:41:56 2 40 percent of the time is -- I think I read
18:41:58 3 -- I opened up the paper this weekend and
8:41:58 3 -- I opened up the paper this weekend and
18:42:00 4 the Department of Agriculture named not this
8:42:00 4 the Department of Agriculture named not this
18:42:02 5 county but Anderson County and some of the
8:42:02 5 county but Anderson County and some of the
18:42:06 6 neighboring counties in East Tennessee
8:42:06 6 neighboring counties in East Tennessee
18:42:08 7 disaster areas because of the amount of
8:42:08 7 disaster areas because of the amount of
18:42:10 8 rain. So at a minimum, as conservative as
8:42:10 8 rain. So at a minimum, as conservative as
18:42:14 9 possible, half the amount of time there was
8:42:14 9 possible, half the amount of time there was
18:42:16 10 too much moisture content in this material
8:42:16 10 too much moisture content in this material
18:42:18 11 for it to be a fugitive emissions risk. So
8:42:18 11 for it to be a fugitive emissions risk. So
18:42:22 12 we're really only talking about the other
8:42:22 12 we're really only talking about the other
18:42:24 13 half of the time.
8:42:24 13 half of the time.
18:42:26 14 All right. All those black dots,
8:42:26 14 All right. All those black dots,
18:42:32 15 that's two weeks' worth of PM 10 sampling.
8:42:32 15 that's two weeks' worth of PM 10 sampling.
18:42:36 16 I'm just going to flip you through these
8:42:36 16 I'm just going to flip you through these
18:42:38 17 pretty quickly. That's the site itself.
8:42:38 17 pretty quickly. That's the site itself.
18:42:40 18 All those purple dots are the locations of
8:42:40 18 All those purple dots are the locations of
18:42:44 19 the 150 personal monitoring samples that are
8:42:44 19 the 150 personal monitoring samples that are
18:42:46 20 taken over an eight-hour period for the
8:42:46 20 taken over an eight-hour period for the
18:42:48 21 workers. And we do that to make sure that
8:42:48 21 workers. And we do that to make sure that
18:42:50 22 the workers' health is protected, especially
8:42:50 22 the workers' health is protected, especially
18:42:54 23 from an inhalation point of view. And to
8:42:54 23 from an inhalation point of view. And to
18:42:58 24 date I believe there's only been one sample,
8:42:58 24 date I believe there's only been one sample,
18:43:02 25 not just out of 150, but hundreds of samples
8:43:02 25 not just out of 150, but hundreds of samples
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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39
18:43:06 1 that even came close to this 25 microgram
8:43:06 1 that even came close to this 25 microgram
18:43:10 2 per cubic meter trigger. Another strong
8:43:10 2 per cubic meter trigger. Another strong
18:43:14 3 level of confidence.
8:43:14 3 level of confidence.
18:43:16 4 Okay. So you can ignore that slide
8:43:16 4 Okay. So you can ignore that slide
18:43:20 5 for a second. The redundant or the backup
8:43:20 5 for a second. The redundant or the backup
18:43:28 6 nature of the system, of the perimeter air
8:43:28 6 nature of the system, of the perimeter air
18:43:30 7 monitoring system, gives the Agency
8:43:30 7 monitoring system, gives the Agency
18:43:32 8 confidence that the public was not put at
8:43:32 8 confidence that the public was not put at
18:43:34 9 risk. I am very confident about that and I
8:43:34 9 risk. I am very confident about that and I
18:43:38 10 feel comfortable with that. What I'm not
8:43:38 10 feel comfortable with that. What I'm not
18:43:40 11 happy about is that this problem took four
8:43:40 11 happy about is that this problem took four
18:43:44 12 months to figure out. In terms of project
8:43:44 12 months to figure out. In terms of project
18:43:48 13 management, that is an unacceptable period
8:43:48 13 management, that is an unacceptable period
18:43:50 14 of time to discover a problem with something
8:43:50 14 of time to discover a problem with something
18:43:52 15 that you're depending on. Thankfully we
8:43:52 15 that you're depending on. Thankfully we
18:43:56 16 have redundant systems.
8:43:56 16 have redundant systems.
18:44:00 17 There needs to be corrective
8:44:00 17 There needs to be corrective
18:44:02 18 actions for that four-month period of time.
8:44:02 18 actions for that four-month period of time.
18:44:06 19 That's just not how you operate. What we
8:44:06 19 That's just not how you operate. What we
18:44:10 20 came about with this was a series of
8:44:10 20 came about with this was a series of
18:44:14 21 corrective actions that get to the root of
8:44:14 21 corrective actions that get to the root of
18:44:16 22 the problem so that we see these data
8:44:16 22 the problem so that we see these data
18:44:20 23 problems sooner and I want to reduce that
8:44:20 23 problems sooner and I want to reduce that
18:44:22 24 down to under 30 days. Four months is just
8:44:22 24 down to under 30 days. Four months is just
18:44:26 25 -- I don't even want to talk about how
8:44:26 25 -- I don't even want to talk about how
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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40
18:44:28 1 unacceptable that is. I want to reduce that
8:44:28 1 unacceptable that is. I want to reduce that
18:44:30 2 down to under 30 days.
8:44:30 2 down to under 30 days.
18:44:34 3 The first thing that TVA is
8:44:34 3 The first thing that TVA is
18:44:36 4 currently conducting is an investigative
8:44:36 4 currently conducting is an investigative
18:44:40 5 report. The fancy language is root cause
8:44:40 5 report. The fancy language is root cause
18:44:44 6 analysis. They'll go through to figure out
8:44:44 6 analysis. They'll go through to figure out
18:44:48 7 how exactly this happened. Fundamentally
8:44:48 7 how exactly this happened. Fundamentally
18:44:50 8 the lab performed the wrong method.
8:44:50 8 the lab performed the wrong method.
18:44:52 9 That's the fundamental problem, so the
8:44:52 9 That's the fundamental problem, so the
18:44:54 10 investigative report will figure out how
8:44:54 10 investigative report will figure out how
18:44:58 11 that happened. My audit staff will begin to
8:44:58 11 that happened. My audit staff will begin to
18:45:02 12 participate in -- TVA has an internal QA
8:45:02 12 participate in -- TVA has an internal QA
18:45:08 13 process that their inspector general also
8:45:08 13 process that their inspector general also
18:45:10 14 audits. Well, but my audit folks are going
8:45:10 14 audits. Well, but my audit folks are going
18:45:14 15 to participate in those weekly conference
8:45:14 15 to participate in those weekly conference
18:45:16 16 calls. Something is not right to me that
8:45:16 16 calls. Something is not right to me that
18:45:18 17 you have a weekly conference call and you
8:45:18 17 you have a weekly conference call and you
18:45:20 18 don't pick up on this problem sooner than
8:45:20 18 don't pick up on this problem sooner than
18:45:22 19 three months, four months.
8:45:22 19 three months, four months.
18:45:26 20 EPA's audit staff will actually
8:45:26 20 EPA's audit staff will actually
18:45:30 21 go to some of these labs and conduct an
8:45:30 21 go to some of these labs and conduct an
18:45:34 22 in-the-field audit for these labs. They
8:45:34 22 in-the-field audit for these labs. They
18:45:38 23 will continue to do periodic independent
8:45:38 23 will continue to do periodic independent
18:45:40 24 sampling. As I said, they've already done
8:45:40 24 sampling. As I said, they've already done
18:45:44 25 two audits and I will add to that by having
8:45:44 25 two audits and I will add to that by having
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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41
18:45:48 1 contractors work with my auditors that
8:45:48 1 contractors work with my auditors that
18:45:52 2 increase the frequency of those periodic
8:45:52 2 increase the frequency of those periodic
18:45:54 3 samples. I haven't figured out whether to
8:45:54 3 samples. I haven't figured out whether to
18:45:58 4 do split samples or collocated samples yet.
8:45:58 4 do split samples or collocated samples yet.
18:46:00 5 I'm still trying to work out the logistics
8:46:00 5 I'm still trying to work out the logistics
18:46:02 6 of that.
8:46:02 6 of that.
18:46:02 7 This item right here, that's really
8:46:02 7 This item right here, that's really
18:46:08 8 the meat of the matter. On a normal project
8:46:08 8 the meat of the matter. On a normal project
18:46:14 9 you do this thing called data validation and
8:46:14 9 you do this thing called data validation and
18:46:18 10 all that really means is you get data back
8:46:18 10 all that really means is you get data back
18:46:18 11 from the lab and the lab has its own QA/QC.
8:46:18 11 from the lab and the lab has its own QA/QC.
18:46:22 12 And good QA is between 20 and 30 percent of
8:46:22 12 And good QA is between 20 and 30 percent of
18:46:26 13 all raw data, you review 20 to 30 percent of
8:46:26 13 all raw data, you review 20 to 30 percent of
18:46:30 14 all raw data. Well, TVA reviews 100 percent
8:46:30 14 all raw data. Well, TVA reviews 100 percent
18:46:34 15 of their raw data. My sense is that that's
8:46:34 15 of their raw data. My sense is that that's
18:46:38 16 part of where the problem occurred is that
8:46:38 16 part of where the problem occurred is that
18:46:42 17 in order to do 100 percent full data review,
8:46:42 17 in order to do 100 percent full data review,
18:46:44 18 it slows things down. I am not going to
8:46:44 18 it slows things down. I am not going to
18:46:46 19 take away from them the ability to do 100
8:46:46 19 take away from them the ability to do 100
18:46:50 20 percent data review. They just need to do
8:46:50 20 percent data review. They just need to do
18:46:52 21 it faster.
8:46:52 21 it faster.
18:46:56 22 I've talked to you about TEOMs. I
8:46:56 22 I've talked to you about TEOMs. I
18:46:58 23 think it's high time that we add a few more
8:46:58 23 think it's high time that we add a few more
18:47:00 24 TEOMs to the network. I'm not sure how
8:47:00 24 TEOMs to the network. I'm not sure how
18:47:04 25 many. It is -- there was a waiting list for
8:47:04 25 many. It is -- there was a waiting list for
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18:47:08 1 these instruments. They were -- it's --
8:47:08 1 these instruments. They were -- it's --
18:47:12 2 they were primarily used by counties and
8:47:12 2 they were primarily used by counties and
18:47:16 3 cities to comply with the Clean Air Act, but
8:47:16 3 cities to comply with the Clean Air Act, but
18:47:20 4 I believe at this point with the help of
8:47:20 4 I believe at this point with the help of
18:47:24 5 some of my auditors, we may be able to jump
8:47:24 5 some of my auditors, we may be able to jump
18:47:28 6 up on the list to get them far sooner.
8:47:28 6 up on the list to get them far sooner.
18:47:32 7 Last but not least, as soon as we
8:47:32 7 Last but not least, as soon as we
18:47:36 8 found out about the problem, TVA immediately
8:47:36 8 found out about the problem, TVA immediately
18:47:42 9 terminated this lab from performing this
8:47:42 9 terminated this lab from performing this
18:47:48 10 analysis and went back to the original lab
8:47:48 10 analysis and went back to the original lab
18:47:50 11 that generated good QA data from January
8:47:50 11 that generated good QA data from January
18:47:54 12 through September. So that's already been
8:47:54 12 through September. So that's already been
18:47:56 13 done. That change is in place. And, oh, by
8:47:56 13 done. That change is in place. And, oh, by
18:47:58 14 the way, low and behold the data is getting
8:47:58 14 the way, low and behold the data is getting
18:48:04 15 turned around quicker. So changes are
8:48:04 15 turned around quicker. So changes are
18:48:08 16 already happening in order to minimize that
8:48:08 16 already happening in order to minimize that
18:48:10 17 problem from occurring again.
8:48:10 17 problem from occurring again.
18:48:12 18 All right. Conclusions. We're on
8:48:12 18 All right. Conclusions. We're on
18:48:20 19 schedule for removing the overwhelming
8:48:20 19 schedule for removing the overwhelming
18:48:24 20 amount of ash from the river and we're on
8:48:24 20 amount of ash from the river and we're on
18:48:26 21 schedule in terms of disposal. I talked to
8:48:26 21 schedule in terms of disposal. I talked to
18:48:30 22 you about the river closure needs to be
8:48:30 22 you about the river closure needs to be
18:48:34 23 extended. I need some public feedback about
8:48:34 23 extended. I need some public feedback about
18:48:36 24 how we do this. I look forward to hearing
8:48:36 24 how we do this. I look forward to hearing
18:48:38 25 from you folks tonight. The ball field will
8:48:38 25 from you folks tonight. The ball field will
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:48:40 1 temporarily go to 30 feet. Metals next to
8:48:40 1 temporarily go to 30 feet. Metals next to
18:48:44 2 the site in the Emory River, they are
8:48:44 2 the site in the Emory River, they are
18:48:46 3 elevated. Drinking water continues to meet
8:48:46 3 elevated. Drinking water continues to meet
18:48:50 4 protective levels. And last but not least,
8:48:50 4 protective levels. And last but not least,
18:48:54 5 the audit found acceptable data for all
8:48:54 5 the audit found acceptable data for all
18:49:00 6 other media and most of the air data except
8:49:00 6 other media and most of the air data except
18:49:02 7 for this filter particulate media-based
8:49:02 7 for this filter particulate media-based
18:49:06 8 sampling from September to January. The
8:49:06 8 sampling from September to January. The
18:49:10 9 public was not put at risk during that time
8:49:10 9 public was not put at risk during that time
18:49:14 10 based on the information from our backup
8:49:14 10 based on the information from our backup
18:49:16 11 systems and TVA will execute these
8:49:16 11 systems and TVA will execute these
18:49:20 12 corrective actions. In fact, they've
8:49:20 12 corrective actions. In fact, they've
18:49:22 13 already begun to execute those corrective
8:49:22 13 already begun to execute those corrective
18:49:24 14 actions. That's it. I appreciate your
8:49:24 14 actions. That's it. I appreciate your
18:49:28 15 time. You're next, Craig?
8:49:28 15 time. You're next, Craig?
18:49:32 16 CRAIG ZELLER: Okay. I'll try and
8:49:32 16 CRAIG ZELLER: Okay. I'll try and
18:49:48 17 be a little shorter. I know Leo had a lot
8:49:48 17 be a little shorter. I know Leo had a lot
18:49:50 18 of stuff to cover. I'll try and get us back
8:49:50 18 of stuff to cover. I'll try and get us back
18:49:54 19 on track. I have been told I talk very
8:49:54 19 on track. I have been told I talk very
18:49:54 20 fast, so maybe it gives us a chance to get
8:49:54 20 fast, so maybe it gives us a chance to get
18:49:58 21 back on track here and getting to the
8:49:58 21 back on track here and getting to the
18:50:00 22 opportunity for y'all to ask questions.
8:50:00 22 opportunity for y'all to ask questions.
18:50:00 23 Again, my name is Craig Zeller. I
8:50:00 23 Again, my name is Craig Zeller. I
18:50:02 24 work with Leo. You've heard the terms
8:50:02 24 work with Leo. You've heard the terms
18:50:04 25 time-critical and non-time-critical. I'm
8:50:04 25 time-critical and non-time-critical. I'm
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:50:06 1 going to use kind of Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase
8:50:06 1 going to use kind of Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase
18:50:10 2 3. Phase 1 is the removal of the ash from
8:50:10 2 3. Phase 1 is the removal of the ash from
18:50:12 3 the river. Phase 2 and Phase 3 is what I'm
8:50:12 3 the river. Phase 2 and Phase 3 is what I'm
18:50:14 4 going to be responsible for. Phase 2 is
8:50:14 4 going to be responsible for. Phase 2 is
18:50:16 5 dealing with all the ash west of Dike 2 in
8:50:16 5 dealing with all the ash west of Dike 2 in
18:50:18 6 the former embayments and sloughs, fancy
8:50:18 6 the former embayments and sloughs, fancy
18:50:22 7 terms for shallow backwaters in what was
8:50:22 7 terms for shallow backwaters in what was
18:50:24 8 once Watts Bar Reservoir. Phase 3 then.
8:50:24 8 once Watts Bar Reservoir. Phase 3 then.
18:50:26 9 Once Phase 1 and 2 are done, Phase 3 will
8:50:26 9 Once Phase 1 and 2 are done, Phase 3 will
18:50:26 10 focus on evaluating any residual ash that's
8:50:26 10 focus on evaluating any residual ash that's
18:50:30 11 left in the river after time-critical and
8:50:30 11 left in the river after time-critical and
18:50:32 12 there may or may not be additional actions
8:50:32 12 there may or may not be additional actions
13 required in the Emory, the Clinch and the
18:50:36 14 Tennessee after we're done with Phase 2.
8:50:36 14 Tennessee after we're done with Phase 2.
18:50:38 15 So what we're going to do today is
8:50:38 15 So what we're going to do today is
18:50:40 16 talk about Phase 2 which is the engineering
8:50:40 16 talk about Phase 2 which is the engineering
18:50:42 17 evaluation, cost analysis report. It is up
8:50:42 17 evaluation, cost analysis report. It is up
18:50:44 18 for public comment. Again, it talks about
8:50:44 18 for public comment. Again, it talks about
18:50:46 19 alternatives for everything west of Dike 2.
8:50:46 19 alternatives for everything west of Dike 2.
18:50:50 20 Everything that's encircled there by blue is
8:50:50 20 Everything that's encircled there by blue is
18:50:52 21 what Phase 2 will address. So this report
8:50:52 21 what Phase 2 will address. So this report
18:51:00 22 that's out on our webpage and it's out for
8:51:00 22 that's out on our webpage and it's out for
18:51:02 23 public comment now, it does talk about the
8:51:02 23 public comment now, it does talk about the
18:51:04 24 next phase, it talked about this
8:51:04 24 next phase, it talked about this
18:51:04 25 non-time-critical removal action.
8:51:04 25 non-time-critical removal action.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:51:06 1 Why am I up here talking about this
8:51:06 1 Why am I up here talking about this
18:51:08 2 now? Well, you heard that Leo said that
8:51:08 2 now? Well, you heard that Leo said that
18:51:10 3 he's on track to get ash out the river by
8:51:10 3 he's on track to get ash out the river by
18:51:12 4 May. We'll have about a million cubic yards
8:51:12 4 May. We'll have about a million cubic yards
18:51:14 5 of ash on site left to ship. That stuff
8:51:14 5 of ash on site left to ship. That stuff
18:51:18 6 will probably will be -- we'll be shipping
8:51:18 6 will probably will be -- we'll be shipping
18:51:20 7 ash on the train to Alabama probably until
8:51:20 7 ash on the train to Alabama probably until
18:51:22 8 November. So my job is to have this next
8:51:22 8 November. So my job is to have this next
18:51:24 9 phase, Phase 2, ready to go and shovel ready
8:51:24 9 phase, Phase 2, ready to go and shovel ready
18:51:28 10 by the time the time-critical removal action
8:51:28 10 by the time the time-critical removal action
18:51:30 11 is done in, say, May, June. That way there
8:51:30 11 is done in, say, May, June. That way there
18:51:34 12 is no lapse in ash being cleaned out of the
8:51:34 12 is no lapse in ash being cleaned out of the
18:51:36 13 environment and that there's no delay, that
8:51:36 13 environment and that there's no delay, that
18:51:42 14 old seamless transition.
8:51:42 14 old seamless transition.
18:51:44 15 So what do we want to establish or
8:51:44 15 So what do we want to establish or
18:51:48 16 accomplish with the next phase, Phase 2?
8:51:48 16 accomplish with the next phase, Phase 2?
18:51:50 17 Well, we've done a bunch of environmental
8:51:50 17 Well, we've done a bunch of environmental
18:51:52 18 sampling analyses, we've done some human
8:51:52 18 sampling analyses, we've done some human
18:51:52 19 health and environmental risk assessment.
8:51:52 19 health and environmental risk assessment.
18:51:56 20 We've come to the conclusion that 2.5
8:51:56 20 We've come to the conclusion that 2.5
18:51:56 21 million cubic yards of ash in what was
8:51:56 21 million cubic yards of ash in what was
18:51:58 22 formally waters of the U. S. is a bad thing.
8:51:58 22 formally waters of the U. S. is a bad thing.
18:52:00 23 Okay. That's kind of the no-brainer of the
8:52:00 23 Okay. That's kind of the no-brainer of the
18:52:02 24 day. So these are the removal action
8:52:02 24 day. So these are the removal action
25 objectives of what we want to accomplish.
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1 The first three are talking
18:52:10 2 about getting ash out of the embayment,
8:52:10 2 about getting ash out of the embayment,
18:52:10 3 eliminating contact with a surface water so
8:52:10 3 eliminating contact with a surface water so
18:52:14 4 that we don't have, you know, ash
8:52:14 4 that we don't have, you know, ash
18:52:16 5 constituents like selenium and arsenic, the
8:52:16 5 constituents like selenium and arsenic, the
18:52:18 6 graphs that Leo showed you, discharging into
8:52:18 6 graphs that Leo showed you, discharging into
18:52:20 7 the Emory River. We also want to minimize
8:52:20 7 the Emory River. We also want to minimize
18:52:22 8 the exposure of this ash to human and
8:52:22 8 the exposure of this ash to human and
18:52:24 9 ecological receptors, the birds and the
8:52:24 9 ecological receptors, the birds and the
18:52:26 10 bunnies. We want to restore the embayment
8:52:26 10 bunnies. We want to restore the embayment
18:52:28 11 to prespill conditions. I've talked to a
8:52:28 11 to prespill conditions. I've talked to a
18:52:30 12 lot of former, I guess, fishermen and
8:52:30 12 lot of former, I guess, fishermen and
18:52:34 13 fisherwomen that used to go for crappie in
8:52:34 13 fisherwomen that used to go for crappie in
18:52:36 14 this area and they said this was probably
8:52:36 14 this area and they said this was probably
18:52:36 15 the best fishing in the Watts Bar area. So
8:52:36 15 the best fishing in the Watts Bar area. So
18:52:40 16 when we're done with this, we're going to
8:52:40 16 when we're done with this, we're going to
18:52:40 17 restore that fishery so it can be enjoyed
8:52:40 17 restore that fishery so it can be enjoyed
18:52:44 18 again for recreation.
8:52:44 18 again for recreation.
18:52:46 19 We want to close out the former
8:52:46 19 We want to close out the former
18:52:46 20 dredge cell. Of course, it failed on
8:52:46 20 dredge cell. Of course, it failed on
18:52:48 21 December 22 of 2008. We want to restore
8:52:48 21 December 22 of 2008. We want to restore
18:52:50 22 that dredge cell so it does not fail again.
8:52:50 22 that dredge cell so it does not fail again.
23 We're going to do that in accordance with
24 Tennessee solid waste rules. Then we also
25 want to safely dispose of all the ash that
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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1 generated during this action.
18:53:02 2 Okay. So we've assembled three
8:53:02 2 Okay. So we've assembled three
18:53:02 3 alternatives and some step alternatives are
8:53:02 3 alternatives and some step alternatives are
18:53:06 4 in the EE/CA report. What do they have in
8:53:06 4 in the EE/CA report. What do they have in
18:53:08 5 common? All three of the alternatives
8:53:08 5 common? All three of the alternatives
18:53:10 6 we're going to talk about here in a minute,
8:53:10 6 we're going to talk about here in a minute,
7 all three of them restore the embayments
8 and sloughs to prespill condition. Okay.
18:53:16 9 So we know what the bathymetry was like on
8:53:16 9 So we know what the bathymetry was like on
18:53:18 10 December 21 of 2008. When we're done with
8:53:18 10 December 21 of 2008. When we're done with
18:53:20 11 implementing one of these three
8:53:20 11 implementing one of these three
18:53:22 12 alternatives, it will be restored to that
8:53:22 12 alternatives, it will be restored to that
18:53:24 13 condition. Okay. A shallow backwater of
8:53:24 13 condition. Okay. A shallow backwater of
18:53:26 14 Watts Bar Reservoir. We are going to close
8:53:26 14 Watts Bar Reservoir. We are going to close
18:53:28 15 out the failed dredge cell and the adjacent
8:53:28 15 out the failed dredge cell and the adjacent
16 ash pond as part of the kind of water
17 treatment system right now.
18 And we're going to enhance the
18:53:40 19 perimeter dikes. Okay. Think of it as a
8:53:40 19 perimeter dikes. Okay. Think of it as a
18:53:40 20 big, giant containment wall that failed,
8:53:40 20 big, giant containment wall that failed,
18:53:42 21 again on December 22. Those dikes are going
8:53:42 21 again on December 22. Those dikes are going
18:53:44 22 to be enhanced and restored using soil
8:53:44 22 to be enhanced and restored using soil
18:53:48 23 cement columns. All three alternatives kind
8:53:48 23 cement columns. All three alternatives kind
18:53:50 24 of have a varying degree of how much soil
8:53:50 24 of have a varying degree of how much soil
18:53:52 25 cement we use. But those things are going
8:53:52 25 cement we use. But those things are going
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:53:54 1 to go down into the bedrock, 60 feet down.
8:53:54 1 to go down into the bedrock, 60 feet down.
18:53:56 2 Okay. From ground surface down, that's 60
8:53:56 2 Okay. From ground surface down, that's 60
18:54:00 3 feet down until you get to bedrock and those
8:54:00 3 feet down until you get to bedrock and those
18:54:00 4 things are being designed to handle a mild
8:54:00 4 things are being designed to handle a mild
18:54:06 5 seismic event, okay, a mild earthquake.
8:54:06 5 seismic event, okay, a mild earthquake.
18:54:08 6 When the ground starts to shake, ash starts
8:54:08 6 When the ground starts to shake, ash starts
18:54:10 7 to liquify and so these soil cement columns
8:54:10 7 to liquify and so these soil cement columns
18:54:16 8 are going to be designed to eliminate any
8:54:16 8 are going to be designed to eliminate any
18:54:16 9 failure under that mode. Okay. So it's
8:54:16 9 failure under that mode. Okay. So it's
18:54:18 10 kind of a worst case scenario.
8:54:18 10 kind of a worst case scenario.
18:54:18 11 What's different about these three
8:54:18 11 What's different about these three
18:54:22 12 alternatives? Well, they differ by whether
8:54:22 12 alternatives? Well, they differ by whether
18:54:22 13 it goes off site or on site, how much goes
8:54:22 13 it goes off site or on site, how much goes
18:54:26 14 off site and how much stays on site. They
8:54:26 14 off site and how much stays on site. They
18:54:30 15 differ in how -- what the final elevation of
8:54:30 15 differ in how -- what the final elevation of
18:54:32 16 the closed out cell is. Some will close it
8:54:32 16 the closed out cell is. Some will close it
18:54:34 17 out higher. Others close it out near ground
8:54:34 17 out higher. Others close it out near ground
18:54:36 18 surface. They differ about the type and
8:54:36 18 surface. They differ about the type and
18:54:38 19 amount of construction traffic. We've got
8:54:38 19 amount of construction traffic. We've got
18:54:40 20 some alternatives in there that look at all
8:54:40 20 some alternatives in there that look at all
18:54:44 21 rail. We have some alternatives in there
8:54:44 21 rail. We have some alternatives in there
18:54:44 22 that look at combination of rail as well as
8:54:44 22 that look at combination of rail as well as
18:54:48 23 trucking. We have one on there that does no
8:54:48 23 trucking. We have one on there that does no
24 transportation off site, everything is
18:54:54 25 disposed of onsite. Also the duration of
8:54:54 25 disposed of onsite. Also the duration of
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:54:56 1 work, how long does it take to complete the
8:54:56 1 work, how long does it take to complete the
18:54:58 2 work from start to finish and how much does
8:54:58 2 work from start to finish and how much does
18:54:58 3 it cost.
8:54:58 3 it cost.
4 Okay. On to the alternatives.
18:55:04 5 Alternative 1, all right, this is an off-
8:55:04 5 Alternative 1, all right, this is an off-
18:55:04 6 site option. It takes 2.8 million cubic
8:55:04 6 site option. It takes 2.8 million cubic
18:55:08 7 yards of ash that is west of Dike 2. It
8:55:08 7 yards of ash that is west of Dike 2. It
18:55:12 8 will leave 10.8 million cubic yards in the
8:55:12 8 will leave 10.8 million cubic yards in the
18:55:16 9 cell and 4.0 cubic yards -- 4 million cubic
8:55:16 9 cell and 4.0 cubic yards -- 4 million cubic
18:55:18 10 yards of ash in the pond. So roughly 15
8:55:18 10 yards of ash in the pond. So roughly 15
18:55:22 11 million cubic yards or so would remain in
8:55:22 11 million cubic yards or so would remain in
18:55:24 12 the closed out dredge cell.
8:55:24 12 the closed out dredge cell.
18:55:24 13 The cell would be closed out at
8:55:24 13 The cell would be closed out at
18:55:26 14 elevation 790. Some elevations that are
8:55:26 14 elevation 790. Some elevations that are
18:55:28 15 important. Watts Bar Reservoir fluctuates
8:55:28 15 important. Watts Bar Reservoir fluctuates
18:55:32 16 between, what, 736 and 741. The ground
8:55:32 16 between, what, 736 and 741. The ground
18:55:38 17 surface elevation of Swan Pond Road is
8:55:38 17 surface elevation of Swan Pond Road is
18:55:40 18 approximately 765, all right, for reference.
8:55:40 18 approximately 765, all right, for reference.
18:55:44 19 The former cell before it failed was around
8:55:44 19 The former cell before it failed was around
18:55:46 20 elevation 820. Okay. So this would be
8:55:46 20 elevation 820. Okay. So this would be
18:55:48 21 closed out 30 feet below the southern route.
8:55:48 21 closed out 30 feet below the southern route.
18:55:52 22 Okay. Just to keep that in mind.
8:55:52 22 Okay. Just to keep that in mind.
18:55:54 23 Two options. Option 1A looks at
8:55:54 23 Two options. Option 1A looks at
18:55:56 24 shipping 380 trains for a duration of
8:55:56 24 shipping 380 trains for a duration of
18:56:00 25 19 months. In this EE/CA report that's out
8:56:00 25 19 months. In this EE/CA report that's out
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:56:02 1 for public comment right now, it assumes
8:56:02 1 for public comment right now, it assumes
18:56:04 2 those trains would be headed to Perry
8:56:04 2 those trains would be headed to Perry
18:56:08 3 County, Alabama. Okay. Opposite 1B is kind
8:56:08 3 County, Alabama. Okay. Opposite 1B is kind
4 of a combination. It sends 208 trains to
18:56:16 5 Perry County and 35,000 trucks to Chestnut
8:56:16 5 Perry County and 35,000 trucks to Chestnut
18:56:18 6 Ridge Landfill, it's a waste management
8:56:18 6 Ridge Landfill, it's a waste management
18:56:22 7 facility outside of Knoxville. It's about
8:56:22 7 facility outside of Knoxville. It's about
18:56:24 8 50 miles away. The reason the trucking
8:56:24 8 50 miles away. The reason the trucking
18:56:26 9 option is thrown in there is we have around
8:56:26 9 option is thrown in there is we have around
18:56:28 10 760,000 cubic yards in the north embayment,
8:56:28 10 760,000 cubic yards in the north embayment,
18:56:30 11 also known as Berkshire Slough. We've got
8:56:30 11 also known as Berkshire Slough. We've got
18:56:32 12 to truck that material someplace. We've
8:56:32 12 to truck that material someplace. We've
18:56:34 13 got to get it into trucks to get it out of
8:56:34 13 got to get it into trucks to get it out of
14 there. So the idea is that once it's in a
18:56:36 15 truck, we could conceivably take it off
8:56:36 15 truck, we could conceivably take it off
18:56:40 16 site to a landfill or we could take it
8:56:40 16 site to a landfill or we could take it
18:56:42 17 back to the ball field for storage. Okay.
8:56:42 17 back to the ball field for storage. Okay.
18 So that is why the trucking alternative,
19 sub-alternative, was thrown in there.
18:56:48 20 The overall project duration is
8:56:48 20 The overall project duration is
18:56:48 21 2.8 years, roughly 3 years, for the digging
8:56:48 21 2.8 years, roughly 3 years, for the digging
18:56:52 22 and the hauling and then another 10 months
8:56:52 22 and the hauling and then another 10 months
18:56:54 23 to close out the ash pond that's adjacent to
8:56:54 23 to close out the ash pond that's adjacent to
18:56:58 24 the lateral expansion. The cost on this --
8:56:58 24 the lateral expansion. The cost on this --
25 this is our middle or mid range cost. The
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:57:02 1 cost on this is $440 million. That's the
8:57:02 1 cost on this is $440 million. That's the
18:57:04 2 trucking option. That's 1B. 450 million
8:57:04 2 trucking option. That's 1B. 450 million
18:57:08 3 for the all trains, everything to Perry
8:57:08 3 for the all trains, everything to Perry
18:57:12 4 County. The operation and maintenance cost
8:57:12 4 County. The operation and maintenance cost
18:57:14 5 with all three of these remedies runs around
8:57:14 5 with all three of these remedies runs around
18:57:18 6 $680,000 a year. That's keeping the grass
8:57:18 6 $680,000 a year. That's keeping the grass
18:57:20 7 on top of the closed out cell and all that
8:57:20 7 on top of the closed out cell and all that
18:57:24 8 kind of stuff.
8:57:24 8 kind of stuff.
18:57:24 9 All right. Option 2 is our most
8:57:24 9 All right. Option 2 is our most
18:57:28 10 expensive alternative running in the
8:57:28 10 expensive alternative running in the
18:57:30 11 $740 million range. This is also the
8:57:30 11 $740 million range. This is also the
18:57:32 12 alternative that digs up the most ash. All
8:57:32 12 alternative that digs up the most ash. All
18:57:34 13 right. So under this alternative, we take
8:57:34 13 right. So under this alternative, we take
18:57:36 14 6.8 million cubic yards of ash off site.
8:57:36 14 6.8 million cubic yards of ash off site.
18:57:40 15 That's around 3 million or so, 2 and a half
8:57:40 15 That's around 3 million or so, 2 and a half
18:57:42 16 million in Berkshire Slough and embayments
8:57:42 16 million in Berkshire Slough and embayments
18:57:46 17 and then it takes -- scalps another 3 and a
8:57:46 17 and then it takes -- scalps another 3 and a
18:57:46 18 half million or so off the top of that --
8:57:46 18 half million or so off the top of that --
18:57:48 19 the cell that's failed out there. Okay. So
8:57:48 19 the cell that's failed out there. Okay. So
18:57:52 20 kind of half and half. This results in the
8:57:52 20 kind of half and half. This results in the
18:57:54 21 less amount of ash that would remain on site
8:57:54 21 less amount of ash that would remain on site
22 forever or in perpetuity, however you want
18:58:00 23 to look at it. That would be around -- what
8:58:00 23 to look at it. That would be around -- what
18:58:02 24 is that, about 11 million cubic yards would
8:58:02 24 is that, about 11 million cubic yards would
18:58:04 25 remain in that closed out cell.
8:58:04 25 remain in that closed out cell.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:58:08 1 It's important to note that there
8:58:08 1 It's important to note that there
18:58:08 2 would still be ash on site. Okay. When we
8:58:08 2 would still be ash on site. Okay. When we
18:58:10 3 take it down to ground surface at 765,
8:58:10 3 take it down to ground surface at 765,
18:58:12 4 there's still a bunch of ash that goes into
8:58:12 4 there's still a bunch of ash that goes into
18:58:14 5 -- you know, down to bedrock and that's
8:58:14 5 -- you know, down to bedrock and that's
18:58:16 6 where that 11 million cubic yards would be
8:58:16 6 where that 11 million cubic yards would be
18:58:18 7 located. This closes the cell out at the
8:58:18 7 located. This closes the cell out at the
18:58:22 8 lowest elevation, from 765 which is near
8:58:22 8 lowest elevation, from 765 which is near
18:58:26 9 ground surface near the road -- elevation of
8:58:26 9 ground surface near the road -- elevation of
18:58:28 10 Swan Pond Circle Road and Swan Pond Road to
8:58:28 10 Swan Pond Circle Road and Swan Pond Road to
18:58:30 11 about 780. So it's nearer ground surface.
8:58:30 11 about 780. So it's nearer ground surface.
18:58:34 12 It takes it down below us. But also it
8:58:34 12 It takes it down below us. But also it
18:58:34 13 increases the train traffic.
8:58:34 13 increases the train traffic.
18:58:38 14 You can see now it's 910 trains for
8:58:38 14 You can see now it's 910 trains for
18:58:40 15 45 months, close to 5 years, or the 1B
8:58:40 15 45 months, close to 5 years, or the 1B
18:58:44 16 option which is 810 trains to Perry County
8:58:44 16 option which is 810 trains to Perry County
18:58:48 17 and the 35,000 truck loads from the
8:58:48 17 and the 35,000 truck loads from the
18:58:50 18 Berkshire Slough in north embayment to
8:58:50 18 Berkshire Slough in north embayment to
18:58:52 19 Chestnut Ridge outside of Knoxville. This
8:58:52 19 Chestnut Ridge outside of Knoxville. This
18:58:54 20 is the longest because it's the most ash off
8:58:54 20 is the longest because it's the most ash off
18:58:56 21 site. It's also the longest to implement.
8:58:56 21 site. It's also the longest to implement.
18:58:58 22 It's 4.1 years plus 10 months to close out
8:58:58 22 It's 4.1 years plus 10 months to close out
18:59:02 23 the ash pond. So you're looking at a total
8:59:02 23 the ash pond. So you're looking at a total
24 of about 5 years of implementation here.
18:59:06 25 Again, our most expensive remedy, 720 to 740
8:59:06 25 Again, our most expensive remedy, 720 to 740
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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18:59:10 1 million.
8:59:10 1 million.
18:59:12 2 Okay. Alternative 3, the one
8:59:12 2 Okay. Alternative 3, the one
18:59:16 3 and only on-site disposal option that's in
8:59:16 3 and only on-site disposal option that's in
4 these three alternatives that are under
18:59:18 5 consideration at this time. Under this
8:59:18 5 consideration at this time. Under this
18:59:18 6 alternative no ash would be shipped off
8:59:18 6 alternative no ash would be shipped off
18:59:22 7 site. What we would do is we'd bring the
8:59:22 7 site. What we would do is we'd bring the
18:59:22 8 ash out of the embayments where it was
8:59:22 8 ash out of the embayments where it was
18:59:24 9 deposited when it was spilled and we would
8:59:24 9 deposited when it was spilled and we would
18:59:28 10 consolidate it back in the same footprint of
8:59:28 10 consolidate it back in the same footprint of
18:59:30 11 where it came from. So this is kind of --
8:59:30 11 where it came from. So this is kind of --
18:59:34 12 in simple terms this is bringing the ash and
8:59:34 12 in simple terms this is bringing the ash and
18:59:34 13 putting it back where it came from in a
8:59:34 13 putting it back where it came from in a
14 closed out cell.
18:59:40 15 Now, this relies on again this
8:59:40 15 Now, this relies on again this
18:59:40 16 perimeter diking system that would surround
8:59:40 16 perimeter diking system that would surround
18:59:42 17 the entire landfill with the soil cement
8:59:42 17 the entire landfill with the soil cement
18:59:46 18 columns to withstand a seismic event. When
8:59:46 18 columns to withstand a seismic event. When
19 we talk about closing out a landfill, what
18:59:52 20 do I mean? Well, we'd stack all the ash in
8:59:52 20 do I mean? Well, we'd stack all the ash in
18:59:54 21 there in a dried out form in and compacted
8:59:54 21 there in a dried out form in and compacted
18:59:56 22 lifts. Once we got all the ash back inside
8:59:56 22 lifts. Once we got all the ash back inside
18:59:58 23 it, surrounded it with the cement columns,
8:59:58 23 it, surrounded it with the cement columns,
19:00:00 24 it would then be capped with 2 foot of clay,
9:00:00 24 it would then be capped with 2 foot of clay,
19:00:04 25 impermeable clay to reduce infiltration.
9:00:04 25 impermeable clay to reduce infiltration.
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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19:00:06 1 Right now the baseline infiltration through
9:00:06 1 Right now the baseline infiltration through
19:00:08 2 the ash is around 14 inches a year. All
9:00:08 2 the ash is around 14 inches a year. All
19:00:12 3 right. So this clay would reduce that
9:00:12 3 right. So this clay would reduce that
19:00:14 4 14 inches a year infiltration down through
9:00:14 4 14 inches a year infiltration down through
19:00:18 5 the ash, an order of magnitude down to about
9:00:18 5 the ash, an order of magnitude down to about
19:00:22 6 1.4 inches a year.
9:00:22 6 1.4 inches a year.
19:00:22 7 It's important to note that under
9:00:22 7 It's important to note that under
19:00:22 8 this alternative -- oops, can you go back
9:00:22 8 this alternative -- oops, can you go back
19:00:24 9 for me, Michael -- there would be about 17
9:00:24 9 for me, Michael -- there would be about 17
19:00:28 10 million cubic yards of ash permanently
9:00:28 10 million cubic yards of ash permanently
19:00:32 11 disposed of and closed out of site. One
9:00:32 11 disposed of and closed out of site. One
12 point I want to make is that before this
19:00:34 13 impoundment failed, there was around 16,
9:00:34 13 impoundment failed, there was around 16,
19:00:38 14 16.5 million cubic yards out there. All
9:00:38 14 16.5 million cubic yards out there. All
19:00:40 15 right. We would simply be putting back what
9:00:40 15 right. We would simply be putting back what
19:00:42 16 was there, closing it out responsibly,
9:00:42 16 was there, closing it out responsibly,
19:00:44 17 putting some infiltration controls in place
9:00:44 17 putting some infiltration controls in place
19:00:46 18 to stop the leaching and surrounding it with
9:00:46 18 to stop the leaching and surrounding it with
19:00:48 19 a concrete system so it would stay there
9:00:48 19 a concrete system so it would stay there
19:00:50 20 forever.
9:00:50 20 forever.
19:00:50 21 So the big advantage of this
9:00:50 21 So the big advantage of this
19:00:52 22 alternative is that there's no disposal
9:00:52 22 alternative is that there's no disposal
19:00:54 23 traffic. It's kind of in the -- it's the
9:00:54 23 traffic. It's kind of in the -- it's the
19:01:00 24 cheapest alternative. 270 million cubic
9:01:00 24 cheapest alternative. 270 million cubic
19:01:04 25 yards -- or excuse me -- million dollars to
9:01:04 25 yards -- or excuse me -- million dollars to
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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19:01:04 1 close out the cell as well as the ash pond.
9:01:04 1 close out the cell as well as the ash pond.
19:01:08 2 If you do them separately, it's a little
9:01:08 2 If you do them separately, it's a little
19:01:10 3 more expensive because it takes a little
9:01:10 3 more expensive because it takes a little
19:01:12 4 more time, it's 320 million.
9:01:12 4 more time, it's 320 million.
19:01:14 5 So how do we evaluate all these
9:01:14 5 So how do we evaluate all these
19:01:16 6 alternatives? When we put them in the
9:01:16 6 alternatives? When we put them in the
7 evaluation criteria and kind of spin the
19:01:20 8 wheel, how do we decide which one is best?
9:01:20 8 wheel, how do we decide which one is best?
19:01:22 9 Well, there's three primary evaluation
9:01:22 9 Well, there's three primary evaluation
19:01:26 10 criteria. It's effectiveness, implement-
9:01:26 10 criteria. It's effectiveness, implement-
19:01:28 11 ability and cost, all right, are the factors
9:01:28 11 ability and cost, all right, are the factors
19:01:28 12 that we're going to consider in this.
9:01:28 12 that we're going to consider in this.
19:01:30 13 Effectiveness is does it meet those removal
9:01:30 13 Effectiveness is does it meet those removal
19:01:34 14 action objectives that I talked about
9:01:34 14 action objectives that I talked about
19:01:34 15 earlier, does it minimize contact with ash,
9:01:34 15 earlier, does it minimize contact with ash,
19:01:36 16 does it minimize erosion into the adjacent
9:01:36 16 does it minimize erosion into the adjacent
19:01:40 17 river, how protective is it in the
9:01:40 17 river, how protective is it in the
19:01:42 18 long-term, how much ash do we leave on site?
9:01:42 18 long-term, how much ash do we leave on site?
19:01:46 19 You can see one alternative, one extreme you
9:01:46 19 You can see one alternative, one extreme you
19:01:48 20 leave 17 million cubic yards of ash on site
9:01:48 20 leave 17 million cubic yards of ash on site
19:01:50 21 and the most costly alternative we leave
9:01:50 21 and the most costly alternative we leave
19:01:54 22 about 10 million cubic yards of ash on site.
9:01:54 22 about 10 million cubic yards of ash on site.
19:01:54 23 So you get some reduction in volume.
9:01:54 23 So you get some reduction in volume.
19:01:56 24 Implementability, how long does it
9:01:56 24 Implementability, how long does it
19:01:58 25 take. You can see from those slides earlier
9:01:58 25 take. You can see from those slides earlier
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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19:02:00 1 our time to finish all these alternatives is
9:02:00 1 our time to finish all these alternatives is
2 anywhere from 3 to 5 years is about as fast
19:02:06 3 as we can get it done. It's a big project.
9:02:06 3 as we can get it done. It's a big project.
19:02:10 4 From an implementability standpoint, what
9:02:10 4 From an implementability standpoint, what
19:02:14 5 kind of stuff are we looking at from a
9:02:14 5 kind of stuff are we looking at from a
19:02:16 6 construction technology. The stuff is
9:02:16 6 construction technology. The stuff is
19:02:16 7 pretty standard technology. It's all
9:02:16 7 pretty standard technology. It's all
19:02:18 8 excavation, dewatering, transportation in
9:02:18 8 excavation, dewatering, transportation in
19:02:22 9 trains or trucks, disposal, foundation
9:02:22 9 trains or trucks, disposal, foundation
19:02:24 10 treatment and the restoration of that former
9:02:24 10 treatment and the restoration of that former
19:02:28 11 water of the U. S. Nothing real tricky here
9:02:28 11 water of the U. S. Nothing real tricky here
19:02:32 12 as far as an implementability standpoint.
9:02:32 12 as far as an implementability standpoint.
19:02:34 13 We've been doing it out here since really --
9:02:34 13 We've been doing it out here since really --
19:02:36 14 since the spill happened. This foundation
9:02:36 14 since the spill happened. This foundation
19:02:38 15 treatment, the soil cement columns I've
9:02:38 15 treatment, the soil cement columns I've
19:02:40 16 mentioned, is pretty proven technology. It
9:02:40 16 mentioned, is pretty proven technology. It
19:02:42 17 is pretty standard technology for
9:02:42 17 is pretty standard technology for
19:02:46 18 reenforcing dams of this type.
9:02:46 18 reenforcing dams of this type.
19:02:48 19 And so cost, it comes down to cost.
9:02:48 19 And so cost, it comes down to cost.
19:02:50 20 On the last one here, these are -- the costs
9:02:50 20 On the last one here, these are -- the costs
19:02:50 21 that I showed you are net present value in
9:02:50 21 that I showed you are net present value in
19:02:54 22 2009 dollars. In addition to the upfront
9:02:54 22 2009 dollars. In addition to the upfront
19:02:56 23 capital costs that range from 270 to 740
9:02:56 23 capital costs that range from 270 to 740
19:03:00 24 million, there's also an O & M cost to
9:03:00 24 million, there's also an O & M cost to
19:03:04 25 maintain the landfill, mow the grass, all
9:03:04 25 maintain the landfill, mow the grass, all
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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19:03:06 1 that kind of stuff. Those costs for all
9:03:06 1 that kind of stuff. Those costs for all
19:03:08 2 three remedies are roughly the same.
9:03:08 2 three remedies are roughly the same.
19:03:10 3 They're about $680,000 a year.
9:03:10 3 They're about $680,000 a year.
19:03:14 4 So what next? We initiated a
9:03:14 4 So what next? We initiated a
19:03:18 5 30-day comment period that started on
9:03:18 5 30-day comment period that started on
19:03:20 6 January 19th when we first released the
9:03:20 6 January 19th when we first released the
19:03:24 7 EE/CA and went up through Feb 20th. Since
9:03:24 7 EE/CA and went up through Feb 20th. Since
19:03:26 8 then we've received requests for extension
9:03:26 8 then we've received requests for extension
19:03:28 9 from three stakeholders, the Roane County
9:03:28 9 from three stakeholders, the Roane County
10 Long-Term Recovery Council, the Community
19:03:32 11 Advisory Group we heard from earlier, and
9:03:32 11 Advisory Group we heard from earlier, and
19:03:34 12 also an environmental group out of
9:03:34 12 also an environmental group out of
19:03:34 13 Washington, D.C. known as the Environmental
9:03:34 13 Washington, D.C. known as the Environmental
19:03:38 14 Integrity Project. Based on those requests
9:03:38 14 Integrity Project. Based on those requests
19:03:40 15 for extension, we have extended that comment
9:03:40 15 for extension, we have extended that comment
19:03:44 16 period an additional 30 days for a total of
9:03:44 16 period an additional 30 days for a total of
19:03:46 17 60. It was very similar to the comment
9:03:46 17 60. It was very similar to the comment
18 period that we held on the EE/CA work plan
19 which was the last time I had the
19:03:52 20 opportunity to talk to you folks.
9:03:52 20 opportunity to talk to you folks.
19:03:52 21 So our comment period on this will
9:03:52 21 So our comment period on this will
19:03:54 22 run through March 20th. After those
9:03:54 22 run through March 20th. After those
19:03:56 23 comments have all been received and fully
9:03:56 23 comments have all been received and fully
19:04:00 24 considered, there will be an action memo.
9:04:00 24 considered, there will be an action memo.
19:04:02 25 That is the decision document. Very similar
9:04:02 25 That is the decision document. Very similar
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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1 to what was written for the start of time-
19:04:06 2 critical work. The action memo we hope to
9:04:06 2 critical work. The action memo we hope to
19:04:08 3 have out sometime in the April/May time
9:04:08 3 have out sometime in the April/May time
19:04:10 4 frame, again, to have this decision ready to
9:04:10 4 frame, again, to have this decision ready to
19:04:12 5 go by the time the time-critical work is
9:04:12 5 go by the time the time-critical work is
19:04:16 6 finished and that would be the start of
9:04:16 6 finished and that would be the start of
19:04:18 7 Phase 2. I believe that's it.
9:04:18 7 Phase 2. I believe that's it.
19:04:20 8 This is my kind of slide of what we
9:04:20 8 This is my kind of slide of what we
19:04:24 9 want to do, what we want to accomplish with
9:04:24 9 want to do, what we want to accomplish with
19:04:24 10 the restoration. Church Slough is a small
9:04:24 10 the restoration. Church Slough is a small
19:04:28 11 little backwater that is to the west, I
9:04:28 11 little backwater that is to the west, I
19:04:32 12 believe, of Swan Pond Road. It's fairly
9:04:32 12 believe, of Swan Pond Road. It's fairly
19:04:34 13 small, 20, probably 30 some acres. On the
9:04:34 13 small, 20, probably 30 some acres. On the
19:04:40 14 left is what it looked like several days
9:04:40 14 left is what it looked like several days
19:04:40 15 after the spill. Okay. What it looks like
9:04:40 15 after the spill. Okay. What it looks like
19:04:42 16 now is what our goal is for the bigger part
9:04:42 16 now is what our goal is for the bigger part
19:04:46 17 of that embayment. Okay. We've got several
9:04:46 17 of that embayment. Okay. We've got several
19:04:48 18 hundred acres out there. Once we get the
9:04:48 18 hundred acres out there. Once we get the
19:04:50 19 ash out of the water, we want to make it
9:04:50 19 ash out of the water, we want to make it
19:04:52 20 look like what Church Slough does today.
9:04:52 20 look like what Church Slough does today.
19:04:54 21 That's kind of the overall -- that's what's
9:04:54 21 That's kind of the overall -- that's what's
19:04:56 22 guiding us. That's what our big objective
9:04:56 22 guiding us. That's what our big objective
19:05:00 23 is here. So thank you very much and I will
9:05:00 23 is here. So thank you very much and I will
19:05:00 24 be available after the Tennessee Department
9:05:00 24 be available after the Tennessee Department
19:05:02 25 of Health has their presentation.
9:05:02 25 of Health has their presentation.
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1 ALAN YARBROUGH: Good evening. My
19:05:14 2 name is Alan Yarbrough. I'm with the Agency
9:05:14 2 name is Alan Yarbrough. I'm with the Agency
19:05:14 3 for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry in
9:05:14 3 for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry in
19:05:18 4 Atlanta. The Agency for Toxic Substances
9:05:18 4 Atlanta. The Agency for Toxic Substances
19:05:22 5 and Disease Registry, also known as ATSDR,
9:05:22 5 and Disease Registry, also known as ATSDR,
19:05:26 6 provides funding to State health departments
9:05:26 6 provides funding to State health departments
19:05:28 7 and one tribal government across the U. S.
9:05:28 7 and one tribal government across the U. S.
19:05:30 8 Through the cooperative agreement, of which
9:05:30 8 Through the cooperative agreement, of which
19:05:32 9 one of our partners is the Tennessee
9:05:32 9 one of our partners is the Tennessee
19:05:34 10 Department of Health, we're able to reach a
9:05:34 10 Department of Health, we're able to reach a
19:05:36 11 lot more sites and do a lot more work than
9:05:36 11 lot more sites and do a lot more work than
19:05:38 12 we could just by using Federal personnel
9:05:38 12 we could just by using Federal personnel
19:05:42 13 alone.
9:05:42 13 alone.
19:05:42 14 The Tennessee Department of Health
9:05:42 14 The Tennessee Department of Health
19:05:44 15 has been a partner for many years now. They
9:05:44 15 has been a partner for many years now. They
19:05:50 16 have been the primary author of the public
9:05:50 16 have been the primary author of the public
19:05:52 17 health assessment that's currently out for
9:05:52 17 health assessment that's currently out for
19:05:54 18 comment. And we have reviewed the document.
9:05:54 18 comment. And we have reviewed the document.
19:05:58 19 We agree with the document. They have
9:05:58 19 We agree with the document. They have
19:06:00 20 certainly done a very thorough job using the
9:06:00 20 certainly done a very thorough job using the
19:06:02 21 same methods we would. The level of
9:06:02 21 same methods we would. The level of
19:06:06 22 integrity of the document is the very same
9:06:06 22 integrity of the document is the very same
19:06:10 23 as what we would have with STSDR. But the
9:06:10 23 as what we would have with STSDR. But the
19:06:14 24 one thing that using State health
9:06:14 24 one thing that using State health
19:06:16 25 departments, they've done it a lot faster
9:06:16 25 departments, they've done it a lot faster
NATIONAL REPORTING AGENCY
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19:06:20 1 than we would be able to with the agency
9:06:20 1 than we would be able to with the agency
19:06:22 2 resources that we have in Atlanta.
9:06:22 2 resources that we have in Atlanta.
19:06:24 3 So with that, I just want to turn
9:06:24 3 So with that, I just want to turn
19:06:24 4 it over to Bonnie Bashor who is going to
9:06:24 4 it over to Bonnie Bashor who is going to
19:06:26 5 talk about some more specifics of the health
9:06:26 5 talk about some more specifics of the health
19:06:28 6 assessment.
9:06:28 6 assessment.
19:06:30 7 BONNIE BASHOR: I'm Bonnie and I
9:06:30 7 BONNIE BASHOR: I'm Bonnie and I
19:06:32 8 would like to stand down there, but I won't.
9:06:32 8 would like to stand down there, but I won't.
19:06:38 9 I'm here to talk about our public health
9:06:38 9 I'm here to talk about our public health
19:06:40 10 assessment that's now in public comment
9:06:40 10 assessment that's now in public comment
19:06:44 11 review. This is going to be a very short
9:06:44 11 review. This is going to be a very short
19:06:48 12 talk, non-technical, because I really want
9:06:48 12 talk, non-technical, because I really want
19:06:52 13 you to read the thing.
9:06:52 13 you to read the thing.
19:06:56 14 We had two primary objectives.
9:06:56 14 We had two primary objectives.
19:07:00 15 That was to decide whether people are being
9:07:00 15 That was to decide whether people are being
19:07:02 16 exposed to the ash, whether they're actually
9:07:02 16 exposed to the ash, whether they're actually
19:07:06 17 contacting it, getting it into them, and to
9:07:06 17 contacting it, getting it into them, and to
19:07:08 18 determine whether any contact you're having
9:07:08 18 determine whether any contact you're having
19:07:12 19 has hurt you. This is different from what
9:07:12 19 has hurt you. This is different from what
19:07:14 20 the Tennessee Poison Center is doing with
9:07:14 20 the Tennessee Poison Center is doing with
19:07:18 21 the individual medical evaluations. This is
9:07:18 21 the individual medical evaluations. This is
19:07:22 22 a public health evaluation. It's not a
9:07:22 22 a public health evaluation. It's not a
19:07:24 23 people evaluation.
9:07:24 23 people evaluation.
19:07:28 24 The data we used came from three
9:07:28 24 The data we used came from three
19:07:30 25 agencies basically from what -- the data
9:07:30 25 agencies basically from what -- the data
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19:07:34 1 that we drew conclusions from. It was TVA,
9:07:34 1 that we drew conclusions from. It was TVA,
19:07:40 2 EPA and TDEC. There were well over 100,000
9:07:40 2 EPA and TDEC. There were well over 100,000
19:07:46 3 data points when you take all the data
9:07:46 3 data points when you take all the data
19:07:50 4 together. So there was a lot of data. We
9:07:50 4 together. So there was a lot of data. We
19:07:56 5 drew 16 conclusions. I'm not going to talk
9:07:56 5 drew 16 conclusions. I'm not going to talk
19:08:00 6 about them because it would have taken our
9:08:00 6 about them because it would have taken our
19:08:02 7 whole time to talk about all those. They
9:08:02 7 whole time to talk about all those. They
19:08:06 8 are in the public health assessment that is
9:08:06 8 are in the public health assessment that is
19:08:08 9 available on our website and we can probably
9:08:08 9 available on our website and we can probably
19:08:12 10 get you some hard copies. We're just about
9:08:12 10 get you some hard copies. We're just about
19:08:14 11 out, but I'm sure ATSDR will give us more.
9:08:14 11 out, but I'm sure ATSDR will give us more.
19:08:20 12 But I have printed out a summary
9:08:20 12 But I have printed out a summary
19:08:22 13 section that has all 16 conclusions
9:08:22 13 section that has all 16 conclusions
19:08:24 14 completely outlined and they're back on that
9:08:24 14 completely outlined and they're back on that
19:08:28 15 back table. And please take those if you
9:08:28 15 back table. And please take those if you
19:08:32 16 don't want to read the whole thing because
9:08:32 16 don't want to read the whole thing because
19:08:34 17 it -- I tried to write it in a friendly way,
9:08:34 17 it -- I tried to write it in a friendly way,
19:08:36 18 but it's still hard going. At least read
9:08:36 18 but it's still hard going. At least read
19:08:38 19 the conclusions in detail.
9:08:38 19 the conclusions in detail.
19:08:46 20 We found of those conclusions there
9:08:46 20 We found of those conclusions there
19:08:48 21 were two really important ones that have to
9:08:48 21 were two really important ones that have to
19:08:52 22 do with how you could be exposed to the ash
9:08:52 22 do with how you could be exposed to the ash
19:08:56 23 in a way that could harm public health. One
9:08:56 23 in a way that could harm public health. One
19:08:58 24 of those was from drinking water. I think
9:08:58 24 of those was from drinking water. I think
19:09:02 25 you've heard Leo say that with the daily and
9:09:02 25 you've heard Leo say that with the daily and
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19:09:08 1 weekly and biweekly testing of drinking
9:09:08 1 weekly and biweekly testing of drinking
19:09:10 2 water, it's always been safe. Early on we
9:09:10 2 water, it's always been safe. Early on we
19:09:14 3 tested well water and springs and it has --
9:09:14 3 tested well water and springs and it has --
19:09:18 4 that hasn't been impacted by the ash. So we
9:09:18 4 that hasn't been impacted by the ash. So we
19:09:24 5 don't feel like there's any public health
9:09:24 5 don't feel like there's any public health
19:09:26 6 threat from the drinking water.
9:09:26 6 threat from the drinking water.
19:09:28 7 The biggest concern we had was from
9:09:28 7 The biggest concern we had was from
19:09:34 8 air, that if the air got -- if the ash dried
9:09:34 8 air, that if the air got -- if the ash dried
19:09:42 9 out and became airborne, you could -- public
9:09:42 9 out and became airborne, you could -- public
19:09:48 10 health could be harmed from the particulate
9:09:48 10 health could be harmed from the particulate
19:09:52 11 matter in the ash. Our public health
9:09:52 11 matter in the ash. Our public health
19:10:00 12 assessment looked at the air data. From as
9:10:00 12 assessment looked at the air data. From as
19:10:06 13 soon as they started, people started taking
9:10:06 13 soon as they started, people started taking
19:10:08 14 air data until through sometime in the
9:10:08 14 air data until through sometime in the
19:10:10 15 summer. I'll have to look up the last date.
9:10:10 15 summer. I'll have to look up the last date.
19:10:14 16 But all the data that we drew conclusions
9:10:14 16 But all the data that we drew conclusions
19:10:18 17 from passed quality control, quality
9:10:18 17 from passed quality control, quality
19:10:22 18 assurance. It's good data.
9:10:22 18 assurance. It's good data.
19:10:26 19 As soon as we heard about the
9:10:26 19 As soon as we heard about the
19:10:26 20 problem with the fall data, we started
9:10:26 20 problem with the fall data, we started
19:10:30 21 talking with Air Pollution Control. I've
9:10:30 21 talking with Air Pollution Control. I've
19:10:36 22 e-mailed with several of them, talked to
9:10:36 22 e-mailed with several of them, talked to
19:10:38 23 Quincy a couple of times. We've been in
9:10:38 23 Quincy a couple of times. We've been in
19:10:40 24 contact with them constantly. I think Leo
9:10:40 24 contact with them constantly. I think Leo
19:10:46 25 did a very good explanation of all the
9:10:46 25 did a very good explanation of all the
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19:10:50 1 redundancy and the backup data that assures
9:10:50 1 redundancy and the backup data that assures
19:10:54 2 us that there was not a problem. And we
9:10:54 2 us that there was not a problem. And we
19:11:00 3 work very closely with Quincy. He's over
9:11:00 3 work very closely with Quincy. He's over
19:11:04 4 there nodding his head because he talked to
9:11:04 4 there nodding his head because he talked to
19:11:06 5 me several times when he was probably
9:11:06 5 me several times when he was probably
19:11:08 6 really busy. Those were our two big
9:11:08 6 really busy. Those were our two big
19:11:12 7 worries, would you be exposed in drinking
9:11:12 7 worries, would you be exposed in drinking
19:11:16 8 water and would you be exposed from the air.
9:11:16 8 water and would you be exposed from the air.
19:11:20 9 So far it looks good. You're not being
9:11:20 9 So far it looks good. You're not being
19:11:24 10 exposed.
9:11:24 10 exposed.
19:11:28 11 Okay. We did an initial release
9:11:28 11 Okay. We did an initial release
19:11:30 12 for fact checking. That's the document you
9:11:30 12 for fact checking. That's the document you
19:11:32 13 read about in the newspaper that's gotten so
9:11:32 13 read about in the newspaper that's gotten so
19:11:38 14 much flack. That went to EPA, TDEC, and TVA
9:11:38 14 much flack. That went to EPA, TDEC, and TVA
19:11:42 15 at the same time. All three agencies looked
9:11:42 15 at the same time. All three agencies looked
19:11:46 16 at the data I used and thought that the data
9:11:46 16 at the data I used and thought that the data
19:11:52 17 I used was the correct data. They also
9:11:52 17 I used was the correct data. They also
19:11:56 18 found a lot of typos and grammatical errors.
9:11:56 18 found a lot of typos and grammatical errors.
19:11:58 19 And I will say this for Oak Ridge Associated
9:11:58 19 And I will say this for Oak Ridge Associated
19:12:02 20 Universities, if you want somebody to check
9:12:02 20 Universities, if you want somebody to check
19:12:04 21 something for grammar, they are superb.
9:12:04 21 something for grammar, they are superb.
19:12:10 22 Okay.
9:12:10 22 Okay.
19:12:12 23 After we got those comments back
9:12:12 23 After we got those comments back
19:12:14 24 from the government agencies, we made our
9:12:14 24 from the government agencies, we made our
19:12:18 25 changes, we got the public comment out for
9:12:18 25 changes, we got the public comment out for
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19:12:22 1 review. After we received comments --
9:12:22 1 review. After we received comments --
19:12:28 2 although TVA got it before we did -- we made
9:12:28 2 although TVA got it before we did -- we made
19:12:32 3 TVA's comments and the initial draft public.
9:12:32 3 TVA's comments and the initial draft public.
19:12:36 4 We've also made all comments public from
9:12:36 4 We've also made all comments public from
19:12:42 5 everyone. So you can get out and see just
9:12:42 5 everyone. So you can get out and see just
19:12:44 6 what everybody said.
9:12:44 6 what everybody said.
19:12:48 7 Once we get your comments -- and we
9:12:48 7 Once we get your comments -- and we
19:12:50 8 really do want them. We've gotten a few
9:12:50 8 really do want them. We've gotten a few
19:12:52 9 sets of comments now and I really appreciate
9:12:52 9 sets of comments now and I really appreciate
19:12:54 10 it and it will make the document better. We
9:12:54 10 it and it will make the document better. We
19:13:00 11 really want that. Oh, I forgot. At the
9:13:00 11 really want that. Oh, I forgot. At the
19:13:04 12 same time that y'all got the document, ATSDR
9:13:04 12 same time that y'all got the document, ATSDR
19:13:08 13 sent it out for outside peer review and
9:13:08 13 sent it out for outside peer review and
19:13:12 14 these are people who don't have anything to
9:13:12 14 these are people who don't have anything to
19:13:16 15 do with TVA and they're scientifically
9:13:16 15 do with TVA and they're scientifically
19:13:22 16 qualified to look at the report to make sure
9:13:22 16 qualified to look at the report to make sure
19:13:24 17 our science was correct. And I don't know
9:13:24 17 our science was correct. And I don't know
19:13:30 18 what, though -- we haven't got their
9:13:30 18 what, though -- we haven't got their
19:13:30 19 comments yet, so I don't know what they'll
9:13:30 19 comments yet, so I don't know what they'll
19:13:32 20 say. But whatever they say, we'll take that
9:13:32 20 say. But whatever they say, we'll take that
19:13:34 21 into consideration in making changes just
9:13:34 21 into consideration in making changes just
19:13:38 22 like we will take your comments into
9:13:38 22 like we will take your comments into
19:13:40 23 consideration. And every comment you give
9:13:40 23 consideration. And every comment you give
19:13:42 24 us will be addressed in a health assessment,
9:13:42 24 us will be addressed in a health assessment,
19:13:46 25 in the final document, and that's what will
9:13:46 25 in the final document, and that's what will
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19:13:48 1 be the final release.
9:13:48 1 be the final release.
19:13:54 2 This is what the initial release
9:13:54 2 This is what the initial release
19:13:54 3 looked like. I don't know what it looks
9:13:54 3 looked like. I don't know what it looks
19:13:58 4 like from where you are, but from here it
9:13:58 4 like from where you are, but from here it
19:14:00 5 doesn't look very red. Those little squares
9:14:00 5 doesn't look very red. Those little squares
19:14:04 6 should be red. Those are the people who
9:14:04 6 should be red. Those are the people who
19:14:08 7 reviewed it, who were sent out for review.
9:14:08 7 reviewed it, who were sent out for review.
19:14:12 8 We didn't actually send it to TEMA, but
9:14:12 8 We didn't actually send it to TEMA, but
9 somebody else did, so we took their
10 comments, too. You can find it at our
19:14:22 11 website. Can you read the bottom line?
9:14:22 11 website. Can you read the bottom line?
19:14:28 12 Okay. Good.
9:14:28 12 Okay. Good.
19:14:28 13 This is what the public comment
9:14:28 13 This is what the public comment
19:14:30 14 draft looks like. It's on our website also
9:14:30 14 draft looks like. It's on our website also
19:14:34 15 at the same place. It was sent out
9:14:34 15 at the same place. It was sent out
19:14:38 16 December 9th. We've extended the comment
9:14:38 16 December 9th. We've extended the comment
19:14:42 17 period until March 9th. It's got
9:14:42 17 period until March 9th. It's got
19:14:48 18 background, lots of data, lots of tables, a
9:14:48 18 background, lots of data, lots of tables, a
19:14:52 19 pretty big discussion about everybody's
9:14:52 19 pretty big discussion about everybody's
19:14:56 20 data, both separately and put together for
9:14:56 20 data, both separately and put together for
19:15:00 21 public health implications. And it's got 16
9:15:00 21 public health implications. And it's got 16
19:15:02 22 conclusions, again, which are over on that
9:15:02 22 conclusions, again, which are over on that
19:15:04 23 table and I really, really want you to read
9:15:04 23 table and I really, really want you to read
19:15:06 24 them and I really, really want your
9:15:06 24 them and I really, really want your
19:15:12 25 comments. And they do need to be in writing
9:15:12 25 comments. And they do need to be in writing
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19:15:16 1 because, one, we need a record of them and
9:15:16 1 because, one, we need a record of them and
19:15:22 2 the other is you can tell I'm not a teenager
9:15:22 2 the other is you can tell I'm not a teenager
19:15:24 3 anymore and I might forget what you said, so
9:15:24 3 anymore and I might forget what you said, so
19:15:26 4 I don't want to do that.
9:15:26 4 I don't want to do that.
19:15:30 5 This is what our website looks
9:15:30 5 This is what our website looks
19:15:34 6 like. You can see there's the public
9:15:34 6 like. You can see there's the public
19:15:38 7 comment release and down there is the
9:15:38 7 comment release and down there is the
19:15:42 8 initial release. It goes from most recent
9:15:42 8 initial release. It goes from most recent
19:15:44 9 stuff is at the top and it goes down. We
9:15:44 9 stuff is at the top and it goes down. We
19:15:50 10 use that website ourselves, so we're on
9:15:50 10 use that website ourselves, so we're on
19:15:54 11 there daily and know that the links do work.
9:15:54 11 there daily and know that the links do work.
19:15:56 12 But if you happen to get one that doesn't
9:15:56 12 But if you happen to get one that doesn't
19:15:58 13 work, call us and we'll fix it.
9:15:58 13 work, call us and we'll fix it.
19:16:04 14 Our next steps are to get your
9:16:04 14 Our next steps are to get your
19:16:06 15 comments, to get the external peer review
9:16:06 15 comments, to get the external peer review
19:16:12 16 comments, release the final report. Then we
9:16:12 16 comments, release the final report. Then we
19:16:16 17 won't go away. We'll still be looking over
9:16:16 17 won't go away. We'll still be looking over
19:16:18 18 TDEC's shoulder and EPA's shoulder and
9:16:18 18 TDEC's shoulder and EPA's shoulder and
19:16:22 19 making sure that things are going well from
9:16:22 19 making sure that things are going well from
19:16:26 20 a public health perspective. Here is where
9:16:26 20 a public health perspective. Here is where
19:16:30 21 you can send comments in green. If you want
9:16:30 21 you can send comments in green. If you want
19:16:32 22 to e-mail them to us, you can e-mail them to
9:16:32 22 to e-mail them to us, you can e-mail them to
19:16:42 23 eep.health@tennessee.gov or you can mail it
9:16:42 23 eep.health@tennessee.gov or you can mail it
19:16:42 24 to this address. And if you need -- the
9:16:42 24 to this address. And if you need -- the
19:16:48 25 eep.health is going to be easy to remember
9:16:48 25 eep.health is going to be easy to remember
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19:16:50 1 and we will try to respond to any questions
9:16:50 1 and we will try to respond to any questions
19:16:54 2 that you have both tonight and in the future
9:16:54 2 that you have both tonight and in the future
19:16:58 3 and that's basically all I've got to say.
9:16:58 3 and that's basically all I've got to say.
19:17:12 4 BRUCE ENGELBERT: Thank you,
9:17:12 4 BRUCE ENGELBERT: Thank you,
19:17:12 5 Bonnie. I think now we're going to have the
9:17:12 5 Bonnie. I think now we're going to have the
19:17:14 6 speakers and a few other people come up and
9:17:14 6 speakers and a few other people come up and
19:17:16 7 they're the ones that will be available for
9:17:16 7 they're the ones that will be available for
19:17:18 8 you to ask questions or address comments
9:17:18 8 you to ask questions or address comments
19:17:20 9 that you may have. While they're on their
9:17:20 9 that you may have. While they're on their
19:17:22 10 way up here, let me just re-introduce
9:17:22 10 way up here, let me just re-introduce
19:17:24 11 myself. I'm Bruce Engelbert. I work for a
9:17:24 11 myself. I'm Bruce Engelbert. I work for a
19:17:26 12 small environmental consulting firm out of
9:17:26 12 small environmental consulting firm out of
19:17:30 13 Charlottesville, Virginia, called E-Squared.
9:17:30 13 Charlottesville, Virginia, called E-Squared.
19:17:30 14 And also in the interest of full disclosure,
9:17:30 14 And also in the interest of full disclosure,
19:17:34 15 I did work for EPA for a number of years. I
9:17:34 15 I did work for EPA for a number of years. I
19:17:36 16 left four years ago. I spent a lot of time
9:17:36 16 left four years ago. I spent a lot of time
19:17:38 17 working in public involvement in the Super
9:17:38 17 working in public involvement in the Super
19:17:42 18 Fund Program, so I have a good understanding
9:17:42 18 Fund Program, so I have a good understanding
19:17:44 19 about cleanup activities and a good
9:17:44 19 about cleanup activities and a good
19:17:46 20 understanding of what's important in terms
9:17:46 20 understanding of what's important in terms
19:17:48 21 of engaging the public and having a
9:17:48 21 of engaging the public and having a
19:17:52 22 transparent and a responsive interaction
9:17:52 22 transparent and a responsive interaction
19:17:54 23 between the agencies that are working on
9:17:54 23 between the agencies that are working on
19:17:58 24 these projects and the citizens and people
9:17:58 24 these projects and the citizens and people
19:18:00 25 of the community.
9:18:00 25 of the community.
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19:18:04 1 So before I just sort of talk a
9:18:04 1 So before I just sort of talk a
19:18:06 2 little bit about how we're going to proceed,
9:18:06 2 little bit about how we're going to proceed,
19:18:08 3 let's quickly go down. You know Bonnie, you
9:18:08 3 let's quickly go down. You know Bonnie, you
19:18:12 4 know Steve, Brenda, I'm sorry, Leo, Craig.
9:18:12 4 know Steve, Brenda, I'm sorry, Leo, Craig.
5 Do you want to just introduce yourselves
6 since --
19:18:20 7 QUINCY STYKE: I'm Quincy Styke,
9:18:20 7 QUINCY STYKE: I'm Quincy Styke,
19:18:24 8 deputy director of the State's Air Pollution
9:18:24 8 deputy director of the State's Air Pollution
9 Control Division.
19:18:26 10 BRUCE ENGELBERT: And Randy. Also,
9:18:26 10 BRUCE ENGELBERT: And Randy. Also,
19:18:30 11 just so everybody knows, over here we have a
9:18:30 11 just so everybody knows, over here we have a
19:18:32 12 court reporter and she's making a transcript
9:18:32 12 court reporter and she's making a transcript
19:18:34 13 of the proceedings. The purpose is because
9:18:34 13 of the proceedings. The purpose is because
19:18:38 14 EPA and TVA want to know what's being talked
9:18:38 14 EPA and TVA want to know what's being talked
19:18:42 15 about this evening and they want to be able
9:18:42 15 about this evening and they want to be able
19:18:44 16 to refer back to it, so if there are
9:18:44 16 to refer back to it, so if there are
19:18:46 17 questions or continuing concerns, they even
9:18:46 17 questions or continuing concerns, they even
19:18:50 18 know who to get in touch with and can make
9:18:50 18 know who to get in touch with and can make
19:18:52 19 sure to follow up on the things that are
9:18:52 19 sure to follow up on the things that are
19:18:52 20 discussed.
9:18:52 20 discussed.
19:18:54 21 So there are quite a few people in
9:18:54 21 So there are quite a few people in
19:18:56 22 the audience. Probably a lot of you do have
9:18:56 22 the audience. Probably a lot of you do have
19:18:58 23 comments, questions, concerns that you'd
9:18:58 23 comments, questions, concerns that you'd
19:19:00 24 like to raise. This is going to be your
9:19:00 24 like to raise. This is going to be your
19:19:02 25 opportunity. We've got two mics, one here
9:19:02 25 opportunity. We've got two mics, one here
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19:19:04 1 and one here. And when you come up, I will
9:19:04 1 and one here. And when you come up, I will
19:19:08 2 recognize you and then if you can be as
9:19:08 2 recognize you and then if you can be as
19:19:12 3 concise as possible in making your remarks
9:19:12 3 concise as possible in making your remarks
19:19:16 4 so that we can make sure that everybody has
9:19:16 4 so that we can make sure that everybody has
19:19:18 5 an opportunity to participate this evening.
9:19:18 5 an opportunity to participate this evening.
19:19:20 6 If you'd try to finish up in a couple of
9:19:20 6 If you'd try to finish up in a couple of
19:19:22 7 minutes. There isn't a strict time frame,
9:19:22 7 minutes. There isn't a strict time frame,
19:19:24 8 but, again, we do want to give everybody an
9:19:24 8 but, again, we do want to give everybody an
19:19:28 9 opportunity to participate.
9:19:28 9 opportunity to participate.
19:19:28 10 You may have questions based on the
9:19:28 10 You may have questions based on the
19:19:34 11 presentations that were made, you may have
9:19:34 11 presentations that were made, you may have
19:19:36 12 concerns, you may have criticisms. All of
9:19:36 12 concerns, you may have criticisms. All of
19:19:38 13 those, the folks up here do want to hear
9:19:38 13 those, the folks up here do want to hear
19:19:40 14 that. And it's perfectly okay to be
9:19:40 14 that. And it's perfectly okay to be
19:19:46 15 passionate in what you have to say, to speak
9:19:46 15 passionate in what you have to say, to speak
19:19:48 16 emotionally, but it's also very important
9:19:48 16 emotionally, but it's also very important
19:19:50 17 that in our comments and our discussions
9:19:50 17 that in our comments and our discussions
19:19:52 18 that we be respectful and we try to be
9:19:52 18 that we be respectful and we try to be
19:19:54 19 constructive because our purpose here
9:19:54 19 constructive because our purpose here
19:19:58 20 tonight is to exchange information, try to
9:19:58 20 tonight is to exchange information, try to
19:20:00 21 learn from one another. It's not really an
9:20:00 21 learn from one another. It's not really an
19:20:02 22 opportunity to resolve personal or policy
9:20:02 22 opportunity to resolve personal or policy
19:20:06 23 issues. Things can be raised, but this is
9:20:06 23 issues. Things can be raised, but this is
19:20:10 24 not a decision meeting. It's, again, an
9:20:10 24 not a decision meeting. It's, again, an
19:20:12 25 information exchange.
9:20:12 25 information exchange.
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19:20:14 1 So when the people are speaking,
9:20:14 1 So when the people are speaking,
19:20:16 2 please give them your full attention. Try
9:20:16 2 please give them your full attention. Try
19:20:18 3 to listen with an open mind and try to --
9:20:18 3 to listen with an open mind and try to --
19:20:24 4 all try and come away from this with a
9:20:24 4 all try and come away from this with a
19:20:26 5 better understanding of not only what's been
9:20:26 5 better understanding of not only what's been
19:20:28 6 accomplished but the things that remain to
9:20:28 6 accomplished but the things that remain to
19:20:30 7 be done, the issues that are out there and
9:20:30 7 be done, the issues that are out there and
19:20:32 8 what the concerns are on everybody's mind.
9:20:32 8 what the concerns are on everybody's mind.
19:20:34 9 So without any further ado, I
9:20:34 9 So without any further ado, I
19:20:38 10 invite the brave souls who would like to get
9:20:38 10 invite the brave souls who would like to get
19:20:42 11 us started to come up to the microphone.
9:20:42 11 us started to come up to the microphone.
19:20:44 12 When you come up, please state your name and
9:20:44 12 When you come up, please state your name and
19:20:46 13 if you're affiliated with an organization,
9:20:46 13 if you're affiliated with an organization,
19:20:48 14 it would also be nice if you'd let us know
9:20:48 14 it would also be nice if you'd let us know
19:20:50 15 who that is so we kind of have a context for
9:20:50 15 who that is so we kind of have a context for
19:20:54 16 your remarks. And where you're from, so if
9:20:54 16 your remarks. And where you're from, so if
19:20:58 17 you live in the community or if you're from
9:20:58 17 you live in the community or if you're from
19:20:58 18 elsewhere. So we'll start on this side.
9:20:58 18 elsewhere. So we'll start on this side.
19:21:04 19 JACK ARP: My name is Jack Arp. I
9:21:04 19 JACK ARP: My name is Jack Arp. I
19:21:10 20 live on Swan Pond Circle Road. I've got a
9:21:10 20 live on Swan Pond Circle Road. I've got a
19:21:12 21 couple of questions. I don't know where is
9:21:12 21 couple of questions. I don't know where is
19:21:12 22 or what is exclusion zone and who decides
9:21:12 22 or what is exclusion zone and who decides
19:21:16 23 where that's at. Also, where do you get the
9:21:16 23 where that's at. Also, where do you get the
19:21:18 24 water that you're watering down the roads?
9:21:18 24 water that you're watering down the roads?
19:21:24 25 LEO FRANCENDESE: The exclusion
9:21:24 25 LEO FRANCENDESE: The exclusion
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19:21:26 1 zone is a HAZWOPER. HAZWOPER is -- if
9:21:26 1 zone is a HAZWOPER. HAZWOPER is -- if
19:21:32 2 you're familiar with that. So we determine
9:21:32 2 you're familiar with that. So we determine
19:21:34 3 the exclusion zone based on the work that's
9:21:34 3 the exclusion zone based on the work that's
19:21:38 4 being conducted and it's a balance between
9:21:38 4 being conducted and it's a balance between
19:21:42 5 making sure that, for instance, you have a
9:21:42 5 making sure that, for instance, you have a
19:21:44 6 road, Swan Pond Circle, that actually cuts
9:21:44 6 road, Swan Pond Circle, that actually cuts
19:21:50 7 through the site. The road is not part of
9:21:50 7 through the site. The road is not part of
19:21:52 8 the exclusion zone, but north of that is and
9:21:52 8 the exclusion zone, but north of that is and
19:21:56 9 south of that is. I guess to determine --
9:21:56 9 south of that is. I guess to determine --
19:22:02 10 in the end the decision comes to my desk.
9:22:02 10 in the end the decision comes to my desk.
19:22:06 11 I approve the health and safety plan, but
9:22:06 11 I approve the health and safety plan, but
19:22:08 12 there is recommendations that come up before
9:22:08 12 there is recommendations that come up before
19:22:12 13 I decide what is and what isn't part of the
9:22:12 13 I decide what is and what isn't part of the
19:22:16 14 exclusion zone.
9:22:16 14 exclusion zone.
19:22:16 15 JACK ARP: Okay. What about the
9:22:16 15 JACK ARP: Okay. What about the
19:22:18 16 water that you get to water the roads, where
9:22:18 16 water that you get to water the roads, where
17 does it come from?
19:22:20 18 LEO FRANCENDESE: The water that
9:22:20 18 LEO FRANCENDESE: The water that
19:22:22 19 comes from the roads comes from the river.
9:22:22 19 comes from the roads comes from the river.
19:22:26 20 JACK ARP: Okay. Thank you.
9:22:26 20 JACK ARP: Okay. Thank you.
19:22:28 21 LEO FRANCENDESE: You're welcome.
9:22:28 21 LEO FRANCENDESE: You're welcome.
19:22:28 22 TERRI LIKENS: Terri Likens, Roane
9:22:28 22 TERRI LIKENS: Terri Likens, Roane
19:22:32 23 County News, Kingston. I heard that the
9:22:32 23 County News, Kingston. I heard that the
19:22:34 24 river is going to be closed again. I didn't
9:22:34 24 river is going to be closed again. I didn't
19:22:36 25 get a clear date on when that will be
9:22:36 25 get a clear date on when that will be
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19:22:38 1 reopened. I was wondering what we can --
9:22:38 1 reopened. I was wondering what we can --
19:22:44 2 LEO FRANCENDESE: Yeah. Terri, it
9:22:44 2 LEO FRANCENDESE: Yeah. Terri, it
19:22:44 3 appears to me that the most reasonable
9:22:44 3 appears to me that the most reasonable
19:22:46 4 answer for keeping at least that section
9:22:46 4 answer for keeping at least that section
19:22:48 5 that we already have closed closed is until
9:22:48 5 that we already have closed closed is until
19:22:52 6 the first week of May. We currently have
9:22:52 6 the first week of May. We currently have
19:22:56 7 until February 15th. What I'm not sure
9:22:56 7 until February 15th. What I'm not sure
19:22:58 8 about is whether to extend the distance in
9:22:58 8 about is whether to extend the distance in
19:23:02 9 the river for the closure, because we're not
9:23:02 9 the river for the closure, because we're not
19:23:06 10 going to be working there all the time,
9:23:06 10 going to be working there all the time,
19:23:08 11 because we have far less ash in those areas
9:23:08 11 because we have far less ash in those areas
19:23:10 12 that we have to go get. I'm really trying
9:23:10 12 that we have to go get. I'm really trying
19:23:12 13 to gauge the inconvenience to people who use
9:23:12 13 to gauge the inconvenience to people who use
19:23:16 14 the river or live on the river to try to
9:23:16 14 the river or live on the river to try to
19:23:20 15 figure out some navigation. But that's also
9:23:20 15 figure out some navigation. But that's also
19:23:24 16 protective of them, for instance, running
9:23:24 16 protective of them, for instance, running
19:23:26 17 into a dredge line or coming too close to
9:23:26 17 into a dredge line or coming too close to
19:23:28 18 dredge anchors.
9:23:28 18 dredge anchors.
19:23:30 19 TERRI LIKENS: But for the whole
9:23:30 19 TERRI LIKENS: But for the whole
19:23:30 20 river, by the second week of May the river
9:23:30 20 river, by the second week of May the river
19:23:32 21 will be back to public again?
9:23:32 21 will be back to public again?
19:23:38 22 LEO FRANCENDESE: It will no longer
9:23:38 22 LEO FRANCENDESE: It will no longer
19:23:38 23 be closed. All right. That's what we're
9:23:38 23 be closed. All right. That's what we're
19:23:40 24 shooting for.
9:23:40 24 shooting for.
19:23:42 25 FRANZ RAETZER: I'm Franz Raetzer.
9:23:42 25 FRANZ RAETZER: I'm Franz Raetzer.
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19:23:46 1 I live at 406 West Shore Drive in Harriman.
9:23:46 1 I live at 406 West Shore Drive in Harriman.
19:23:50 2 I have two questions. What happens to the
9:23:50 2 I have two questions. What happens to the
19:23:54 3 water from the ball field? Do you just dump
9:23:54 3 water from the ball field? Do you just dump
19:23:56 4 that back into the river?
9:23:56 4 that back into the river?
19:23:58 5 LEO FRANCENDESE: So the water
9:23:58 5 LEO FRANCENDESE: So the water
19:24:00 6 from the ball field gets -- storm water
9:24:00 6 from the ball field gets -- storm water
19:24:06 7 management. That water goes -- gets
9:24:06 7 management. That water goes -- gets
19:24:08 8 channeled to the rim ditch. The material
9:24:08 8 channeled to the rim ditch. The material
19:24:12 9 from the river comes to the rim ditch.
9:24:12 9 from the river comes to the rim ditch.
19:24:14 10 That's where it gets excavated out and it
9:24:14 10 That's where it gets excavated out and it
19:24:18 11 goes around to a sluice trench. It goes
9:24:18 11 goes around to a sluice trench. It goes
19:24:20 12 to the settling pond and then to a polishing
9:24:20 12 to the settling pond and then to a polishing
19:24:22 13 pond, otherwise known as the stilling pond.
9:24:22 13 pond, otherwise known as the stilling pond.
19:24:26 14 So all that ball field water gets
9:24:26 14 So all that ball field water gets
19:24:28 15 rechanneled back to the rim ditch, sluice
9:24:28 15 rechanneled back to the rim ditch, sluice
19:24:32 16 trench, settling pond and the stilling pond.
9:24:32 16 trench, settling pond and the stilling pond.
19:24:34 17 FRANZ RAETZER: What's the quality
9:24:34 17 FRANZ RAETZER: What's the quality
19:24:36 18 of that water when it goes finally into the
9:24:36 18 of that water when it goes finally into the
19:24:38 19 river?
9:24:38 19 river?
19:24:38 20 LEO FRANCENDESE: So that water
9:24:38 20 LEO FRANCENDESE: So that water
19:24:40 21 meets the current permit parameters at the
9:24:40 21 meets the current permit parameters at the
22 NPDES permit, which is an outfall permit at
19:24:46 23 the stilling pond.
9:24:46 23 the stilling pond.
19:24:48 24 FRANZ RAETZER: But that's not
9:24:48 24 FRANZ RAETZER: But that's not
19:24:50 25 drinking water quality?
9:24:50 25 drinking water quality?
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19:24:52 1 LEO FRANCENDESE: No.
9:24:52 1 LEO FRANCENDESE: No.
19:24:52 2 FRANZ RAETZER: Uh-huh. So you get
9:24:52 2 FRANZ RAETZER: Uh-huh. So you get
19:24:54 3 them on the river to dilute it down to
9:24:54 3 them on the river to dilute it down to
19:24:56 4 drinking water quality?
9:24:56 4 drinking water quality?
19:24:58 5 LEO FRANCENDESE: Well, there are
9:24:58 5 LEO FRANCENDESE: Well, there are
19:25:00 6 two answers to that. The first answer is,
9:25:00 6 two answers to that. The first answer is,
19:25:02 7 yes, there's definitely an element of
9:25:02 7 yes, there's definitely an element of
19:25:06 8 dilution when it hits the river and you can
9:25:06 8 dilution when it hits the river and you can
19:25:08 9 see that in other means. When you look at
9:25:08 9 see that in other means. When you look at
19:25:10 10 the embayment, you see those concentrations
9:25:10 10 the embayment, you see those concentrations
19:25:12 11 are higher, but when you look in the river,
9:25:12 11 are higher, but when you look in the river,
19:25:14 12 you see those concentrations are lower.
9:25:14 12 you see those concentrations are lower.
19:25:16 13 It's the same material. I have a higher
9:25:16 13 It's the same material. I have a higher
19:25:20 14 volume of water. But also the settling
9:25:20 14 volume of water. But also the settling
19:25:22 15 process that it goes through with the
9:25:22 15 process that it goes through with the
19:25:26 16 ditches, the settling pond, and the
9:25:26 16 ditches, the settling pond, and the
19:25:28 17 polishing pond, take out a large degree of
9:25:28 17 polishing pond, take out a large degree of
18 suspended solids.
19:25:32 19 FRANZ RAETZER: Yes, but that
9:25:32 19 FRANZ RAETZER: Yes, but that
19:25:34 20 leads me to the second question. That is
9:25:34 20 leads me to the second question. That is
19:25:36 21 what Ms. Bashor said in the newspaper
9:25:36 21 what Ms. Bashor said in the newspaper
19:25:42 22 article or was quoted as saying that these
9:25:42 22 article or was quoted as saying that these
19:25:46 23 ash contaminants are absolutely not water
9:25:46 23 ash contaminants are absolutely not water
19:25:50 24 soluble, they are not coming out of the ash
9:25:50 24 soluble, they are not coming out of the ash
19:25:56 25 particles. And I don't believe that because
9:25:56 25 particles. And I don't believe that because
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19:25:58 1 if that was true, then no fertilizer would
9:25:58 1 if that was true, then no fertilizer would
19:26:02 2 work. So explain to me why you still
9:26:02 2 work. So explain to me why you still
19:26:08 3 believe that this is absolutely non-water
9:26:08 3 believe that this is absolutely non-water
19:26:14 4 soluble. Which actually I think Quincy is
9:26:14 4 soluble. Which actually I think Quincy is
19:26:18 5 the name has stated to me that those would
9:26:18 5 the name has stated to me that those would
19:26:22 6 be forwarded, that this is very hard bound
9:26:22 6 be forwarded, that this is very hard bound
19:26:26 7 in the material and I wonder where you get
9:26:26 7 in the material and I wonder where you get
19:26:28 8 that opinion from, whether you have made
9:26:28 8 that opinion from, whether you have made
19:26:30 9 personally the tests that this stuff is not
9:26:30 9 personally the tests that this stuff is not
19:26:34 10 leaching out into the water.
9:26:34 10 leaching out into the water.
19:26:40 11 BONNIE BASHOR: One, I didn't say
9:26:40 11 BONNIE BASHOR: One, I didn't say
19:26:40 12 it that way. What I said was that they were
9:26:40 12 it that way. What I said was that they were
19:26:44 13 tightly bound. I didn't say they were
9:26:44 13 tightly bound. I didn't say they were
19:26:46 14 100 percent completely, totally bound.
9:26:46 14 100 percent completely, totally bound.
19:26:50 15 Okay. So there's a little difference there.
9:26:50 15 Okay. So there's a little difference there.
19:26:54 16 FRANZ RAETZER: Okay. But we have
9:26:54 16 FRANZ RAETZER: Okay. But we have
19:26:56 17 -- we hear other stuff that is going
9:26:56 17 -- we hear other stuff that is going
19:26:58 18 somewhere and it will be rained on or --
9:26:58 18 somewhere and it will be rained on or --
19:27:02 19 BONNIE BASHOR: Well, I think you
9:27:02 19 BONNIE BASHOR: Well, I think you
19:27:02 20 can see that from Leo's data. There is --
9:27:02 20 can see that from Leo's data. There is --
19:27:08 21 he used arsenic as a -- what's the word --
9:27:08 21 he used arsenic as a -- what's the word --
19:27:16 22 as a surrogate of what's happening.
9:27:16 22 as a surrogate of what's happening.
19:27:16 23 LEO FRANCENDESE: Primary
9:27:16 23 LEO FRANCENDESE: Primary
19:27:16 24 contaminate, it's the tracking contaminant.
9:27:16 24 contaminate, it's the tracking contaminant.
19:27:20 25 BONNIE BASHOR: It's a tracking
9:27:20 25 BONNIE BASHOR: It's a tracking
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19:27:22 1 contaminant. Right at the ash, the levels
9:27:22 1 contaminant. Right at the ash, the levels
19:27:24 2 are high. And I suspect that may have more
9:27:24 2 are high. And I suspect that may have more
19:27:30 3 impact on fish than it would with people
9:27:30 3 impact on fish than it would with people
19:27:32 4 because people aren't exposed right there.
9:27:32 4 because people aren't exposed right there.
19:27:38 5 FRANZ RAETZER: I understand that,
9:27:38 5 FRANZ RAETZER: I understand that,
6 but --
19:27:38 7 BONNIE BASHOR: Okay. So by the
9:27:38 7 BONNIE BASHOR: Okay. So by the
19:27:40 8 time it gets out in the river we're at --
9:27:40 8 time it gets out in the river we're at --
19:27:42 9 the levels are very low.
9:27:42 9 the levels are very low.
19:27:44 10 FRANZ RAETZER: It's diluted, yes.
9:27:44 10 FRANZ RAETZER: It's diluted, yes.
11 BONNIE BASHOR: Yes.
19:27:46 12 FRANZ RAETZER: But the elements
9:27:46 12 FRANZ RAETZER: But the elements
19:27:46 13 are still there, so in turn is that really
9:27:46 13 are still there, so in turn is that really
19:27:50 14 safe?
9:27:50 14 safe?
19:27:52 15 BONNIE BASHOR: Yes, because the
9:27:52 15 BONNIE BASHOR: Yes, because the
19:27:52 16 ash will be cleaned up.
9:27:52 16 ash will be cleaned up.
19:27:54 17 LEO FRANCENDESE: It's a discussion
9:27:54 17 LEO FRANCENDESE: It's a discussion
19:27:54 18 of degree.
9:27:54 18 of degree.
19:27:56 19 FRANZ RAETZER: Yeah.
9:27:56 19 FRANZ RAETZER: Yeah.
19:27:58 20 LEO FRANCENDESE: And there's also
9:27:58 20 LEO FRANCENDESE: And there's also
19:27:58 21 devil in the details. For instance, on
9:27:58 21 devil in the details. For instance, on
19:28:00 22 selenium we look at solo concentration for
9:28:00 22 selenium we look at solo concentration for
23 fish and aquatic life standard, but for
19:28:06 24 arsenic we look at dissolved concentration.
9:28:06 24 arsenic we look at dissolved concentration.
19:28:08 25 So it's different for each different metal.
9:28:08 25 So it's different for each different metal.
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19:28:12 1 Then when you really get deeper in the
9:28:12 1 Then when you really get deeper in the
19:28:14 2 woods, it's species related. There's a
9:28:14 2 woods, it's species related. There's a
19:28:16 3 concept called a Pourbaix diagram with
9:28:16 3 concept called a Pourbaix diagram with
19:28:20 4 available oxygen and PH and then those --
9:28:20 4 available oxygen and PH and then those --